That women should not have to share changing rooms with men

[WandsOut]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13459927/NHS-chiefs-legal-action-female-nurses-changing-room-transgender.html

This is absolutely horrific and probably the first of many cases we will see now. Please read the article in full but this alone is appalling. The response by their HR should be noted because that is what is going to happen to every woman who complains about this if we keep allowing these fraudulent men to get away with what they want.

One of the nurses told The Mail on Sunday: 'We don't feel safe because we strip down to our underwear and [the individual] doesn't just stay by his locker. 'He walks around the changing room in his boxer shorts.'
Another nurse said she was 'close to tears' during one incident in the changing room.
She said: 'I was rummaging in my bag trying to find my lanyard and keys for the locker when a man's voice behind me said, 'Are you not getting changed yet?' 'I found my keys and opened my locker and I was asked again, 'Are you not getting changed yet?'.'
The woman, who was sexually abused as a child, has posttraumatic stress disorder and struggles to be alone around men. She said: 'He stood there, two metres away from me, with a scrub top on and with tight black boxer shorts with holes in them and asked a third time whether I was getting changed yet.
'Flight or fight mode kicked in but I felt glued to my seat, I could not move. 'My hands started to sweat. I was petrified and felt sick and began hyperventilating.'
In March, 26 nurses wrote to management saying that the transgender nurse 'has made no secret' of the fact that 'he has stopped taking female hormones and is trying to inseminate his female partner'.
AIBU to suggest NOW is the time to wake up, en masse and stop allowing BE KIND to be a mantra that allows predatory men access to women at their most vulnerable.

This I do find interesting, with the caveat that we all have subjective memories. Sincere thanks

I can’t do links on my phone (on the run) so don’t worry about that, I don’t mind searching eventually

What do you think when BBC invites GC activists to share their views? Stock, Duffield and Blackburn amongst others have all been on this year

I think that one of the reasons that these fraudulent men have been getting away with it is that some aspects of gender ideology are so bonkers that the general public who aren't following these issues closely simply believe that womens rights campaigners are making things up or exaggerating whats happened.

Would most people really believe that when a female patient is raped in an NHS hospital the staff would tell police that the rape couldn't possibly have happened because there were no men on the ward and then continue lying for a whole year until CCTV footage was discovered that proved a rape had occurred. Those staff knew full well that there was a man in the ward but as he identified as a woman they insisted that he was not a man.

Would most people really believe that a rape crisis centre would not reassure women that their counselor with a male name was actually a women but instead hound another women worker out of her job for saying that she thought that raped women should be reassured that their counselor was female but identified as non binary. Would most people believe that the unqualified male CEO would counsel women and question whether they orgasmed as a result of their rape.

Would most people really believe that young women on a beauty therapy course would be told they couldn't complain when they felt uncomfortable about having to strip for tanning and waxing practice in front of a man who was facing charges for rape. (they didn't know at the time that he was a rapist but they knew he was a creepy man)

the general public who aren't following these issues closely simply believe that womens rights campaigners are making things up or exaggerating

DH thought that. I did too, for a while. Then we started to see the effects all round, including colleagues, friends and family. It's got to the point where I'm unreasonably cheered if a friend's daughter only goes non-binary rather than full on trans man, as at least she gets to keep a healthy body for now.

I hope the Cass report will help with that.

I think about bloody time! I think at last, perhaps the era of #NoDebate really is drawing to a close.

It's true that the TRA think the BBC is biased against them. But I think the BBC is biased because they so very rarely allow GC or feminist views to be aired, whereas the TRA think the BBC is biased because they allow those views to be aired at all, ever.

I think it's worth repeating PPs post:

An example here from Question Time. Professor Robert Winston states categorically that you can't change sex and in response Fiona Bruce says that there are people that would vehemently disagree with him and she needs to make that clear. Can you imagine a UK leading physicist on QT stating that the earth is round and then being told that there are people who vehemently disagree with her and that needs to be made clear.

Can you point to a single instance when a TRA expert has been similarly disrespected and had their world renouned scientific expertise treated as a belief?

Interesting. We would really need a count to assess the accuracy of those perceptions

I don’t think Fiona Bruce was disrespecting Robert Winston, though I think she should have been more articulate.

I think FB was being too cryptic. She stopped short of saying the controversy is between whether being a woman is about the biological concept of sex or, as some would say, the social construct of gender. If she had said this I feel sure many on this thread would disagree furiously, but would understand she wasn’t denying scientific fact.

I am confident that Fiona Bruce understands M and F chromosomes. I believe explaining the difference between sex and gender, and that the debate is over which of these defines a woman, would have made it clear she wasn’t denying scientific fact.

I can't remember where but I watched an interview with Robert Winston and he was saying that a number of trans identified men were coming to his fertility clinic wanting to get pregnant. Those men believed they had changed sex and would be able to get pregnant. He also said that he was seeing increasing numbers of trans identified women who didn't understand that taking testosterone would affect their fertility.

On question time Robert Winston was specifically talking about changing sex not gender vs sex.

RW knows this is about the uterus, precise hormonal balance, etc and the defining property which is your chromosomes. This needed to be explained better

Why would trans women take testosterone? That gives masculine characteristics.

Trans identified women = female who identifies as a man

They didn't say trans women, they said trans identified women.

Eats shoots and leaves

I can remember reading about a transman who was raped who kept repeating 'but I'm a man'. I've seen this myself,a TM who has been victimised in the past thinking they will be invincible to that now as they are a man.

There are some very vulnerable and confused individuals who have been taught/ encouraged to believe that they have or can actually change sex, either biologically, or that their identity will mean that the rest of the world will see them as they see themselves, a kind of magical thinking. What the hell have children who have been taught by trusted adults that humans can choose whether they're male or female, the whole 'assigned at birth, there are 100 genders' crap, got to base their understanding of biological reality on? I feel sympathy for people who have become victims of this ideology.

Having said that, it doesn't change my position that men however confused,vulnerable, lied to, do not belong in women's spaces. Women aren't support humans or humans shields.

I also have sympathy with the children who've got caught up in this. They've been lied to and experimented on. I've seen clips of girls wanting double mastectomies saying it doesn't matter if they change their minds later because they could just take oestrogen and they would grow back

There are over 417 trans people working at the BBC. Way above the National average. One might consider that a reason for them thinking that the BBC did not represent them enough.

You'd also think it was a massive reason to think that the BBC were bias in their favour, of course.

This doesn’t address the core question. The BBC has 21,000 odd employees. It is a high-ish rate, yes.

Also it doesn’t measure like for like. Many on the census declined to answer, many are not in work for various reasons, etc. Older people and the prepubescent are known less likely to identify as transgender.

We really need good metrics.

We really need good metrics.

We don't. Men aren't women. No metrics will make them women. So they don't belong in women's spaces.

Absolutely this 👏👏👏👏

And after 5 million posts back to the actual point of the thread

Men are not women and shouldn’t be sharing changing facilities - it’s no more complicated than that or it shouldn’t be

Quite.

Another change of topic. The subthread concerned the BBC

It's not a change of topic, it is the topic. If you want to make thread about the BBC you can.

Oh you amazing wims. I don't know how you do it. There was screaming inside my head many many pages ago. 😱😱😭