That women should not have to share changing rooms with men

[WandsOut]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13459927/NHS-chiefs-legal-action-female-nurses-changing-room-transgender.html

This is absolutely horrific and probably the first of many cases we will see now. Please read the article in full but this alone is appalling. The response by their HR should be noted because that is what is going to happen to every woman who complains about this if we keep allowing these fraudulent men to get away with what they want.

One of the nurses told The Mail on Sunday: 'We don't feel safe because we strip down to our underwear and [the individual] doesn't just stay by his locker. 'He walks around the changing room in his boxer shorts.'
Another nurse said she was 'close to tears' during one incident in the changing room.
She said: 'I was rummaging in my bag trying to find my lanyard and keys for the locker when a man's voice behind me said, 'Are you not getting changed yet?' 'I found my keys and opened my locker and I was asked again, 'Are you not getting changed yet?'.'
The woman, who was sexually abused as a child, has posttraumatic stress disorder and struggles to be alone around men. She said: 'He stood there, two metres away from me, with a scrub top on and with tight black boxer shorts with holes in them and asked a third time whether I was getting changed yet.
'Flight or fight mode kicked in but I felt glued to my seat, I could not move. 'My hands started to sweat. I was petrified and felt sick and began hyperventilating.'
In March, 26 nurses wrote to management saying that the transgender nurse 'has made no secret' of the fact that 'he has stopped taking female hormones and is trying to inseminate his female partner'.
AIBU to suggest NOW is the time to wake up, en masse and stop allowing BE KIND to be a mantra that allows predatory men access to women at their most vulnerable.

Laverne Cox is a man. Anyone can see that. Your idea of 'passing' is obviously not the same as mine.

Regardless, whether he has had his genitals amputated, Cox is not a woman, but an effigy of a woman.
An offensive one.

Sex is a biological reality. Deal with it.

Why do you say it’s an unflattering photo?

Laverne Cox seems to be very attractive but still would not easily be confused for a woman.

Here's the YouTube video again for anyone who thinks it's 'unflattering' so please watch it and decide. I can see how someone might consider that a photo can be less than flattering but I can't see how video footage can give anything other than accurate footage.

I'm still trying to make sense of pp assertion that there's a predictable difference between good looking TW and those unflattering types

Please acquaint yourself with Sarah Jane Baker, attempted murderer and sex offender who exhorts people to punch terfs in the face.

By your definition, fully transitioned and therefore deserving of being considered a woman. Full transition doesn't seem to have done much for Baker's aggression.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/trans-activist-sarah-jane-baker-criminal-charge-court-pride-rally-london-b1101371.html

Love Magdalen Berns. She should still be here saying: 'F O y w at all the men trying to get into women's spaces today.

One can only speak of averages. There are outliers and jerks of every persuasion and orientation.

To continue, you have generalised from a particular example.

One may as well say that women should not be paediatric nurses - only men should - because of Lucy Letby and other recent cases

@poetryandwine but paraphilias cluster. So the minute that Stonewall included cross dressers under the trans umbrella, we suddenly got a lot of men who get sexually aroused by dressing in women's clothing declaring that they are transwomen. And if you have a fetish for women's clothing then chances are you have other fetishes.

The prison statistics show that men who identify as women are considerably more likely to be sex offenders than other men.

Not to mention the inference that 'gorgeous' = female, and 'back end of a bus' = male. Or did I misunderstand?

Trans women have similar patterns of offending to non trans men. Unsurprising really as trans women are men.

https://fairplayforwomen.com/transgender-male-criminality-sex-offences/

From the Telegraph:

"More than 70 per cent of transgender prisoners in British jails are serving sentences for sex offences and violent crimes, government figures have revealed.
At least 181 of the 244 transgender inmates, more than 74 per cent, are in jail for crimes including rape, forcing under-age children into having sex, grievous bodily harm and robbery.
Up to 144 transgender women, men who identify as females, are housed in male prisons while five are currently imprisoned in female jails - including at least one top-security institution where murderers and terrorists are being detained.
The high levels of violent crimes among male prisoners who identify as women demonstrates why they should not be detained in female prisons, women’s rights campaigners argue."

Archived article.

Who said ‘back end of a bus’?

I didnt post anyones photo.

Still if Alex looks unflattering,that's a him problem

@poetryandwine what percentage of women in British jails are serving sentences for sexual or violent crimes? Please compare this to men who identify as women.

Great job @poetryandwine

you have successfully bored most people from this thread, I suspect, and prevented a few uncommitted readers from learning something which might have been very useful to them.

I expect your shapely friends will be very happy with your efforts.

But you appear willing to let the outliers and jerks into the women only spaces if they've had all the operations and hormones. Hence we have to let the Sarah Jane parkers in also.

For those asking about transmen in men's space.

When transmen go into men's space, they consciously decide to take all the risk on themselves.

When trans women go into women's space, they are the risk.

I think it's good that @poetryandwine wants to talk about averages.

Around 3 women per million are currently incarcerated for sex offences.

Around 1956 transwomen per million are currently incarcerated for sex offences.

It's almost like most like transwomen are not, on average, the same as women.

Frankly, if you're married to a man who enjoys watching you make an absolute ignorant tit of yourself, then that might explain a lot.

You poor sod.

No, you generalised when you said that those men who have had the surgery have earned the right to be called and be considered women, and you welcome them into women's spaces:

In my circles once you have surgically and hormonally transitioned we welcome you as a woman. Not someone who is ‘passing’, but someone who was born into the wrong body.

Men are not women, and no surgery or drugs will make them women.

And by the by, 'born in the wrong body' as well as being nonsense (if you're born in the wrong body, what 'you' is in the body? That's a religious belief surely?) is really offensive towards people born with impactful physical disabilities and differences. Was someone born with spina bifida born in the right body? How about someone born with no arms, was that the right body, the body they should have?

I've seen poetryandwine be perfectly sensible and intelligent on many another thread.

I find it interesting watching someone start to argue from the position I used to take. I wonder where and when we started to differ. I think, in my case, it was the sheer numbers of sudden transboys around us that made me sit up.

@ExtraDay that's a very good point.

I think most of us started out from a similar position to poetryandwine because we thought that most transwomen had dysphoria and surgery.

Once we realise that the vast majority of transwomen retain their penis, and are very proud of it, we completely change our attitude to having transwomen get undressed in the same rooms where we are naked and vulnerable.