That women should not have to share changing rooms with men

[WandsOut]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13459927/NHS-chiefs-legal-action-female-nurses-changing-room-transgender.html

This is absolutely horrific and probably the first of many cases we will see now. Please read the article in full but this alone is appalling. The response by their HR should be noted because that is what is going to happen to every woman who complains about this if we keep allowing these fraudulent men to get away with what they want.

One of the nurses told The Mail on Sunday: 'We don't feel safe because we strip down to our underwear and [the individual] doesn't just stay by his locker. 'He walks around the changing room in his boxer shorts.'
Another nurse said she was 'close to tears' during one incident in the changing room.
She said: 'I was rummaging in my bag trying to find my lanyard and keys for the locker when a man's voice behind me said, 'Are you not getting changed yet?' 'I found my keys and opened my locker and I was asked again, 'Are you not getting changed yet?'.'
The woman, who was sexually abused as a child, has posttraumatic stress disorder and struggles to be alone around men. She said: 'He stood there, two metres away from me, with a scrub top on and with tight black boxer shorts with holes in them and asked a third time whether I was getting changed yet.
'Flight or fight mode kicked in but I felt glued to my seat, I could not move. 'My hands started to sweat. I was petrified and felt sick and began hyperventilating.'
In March, 26 nurses wrote to management saying that the transgender nurse 'has made no secret' of the fact that 'he has stopped taking female hormones and is trying to inseminate his female partner'.
AIBU to suggest NOW is the time to wake up, en masse and stop allowing BE KIND to be a mantra that allows predatory men access to women at their most vulnerable.

I could turn this around: the Telegraph for an impartial source? I will accept it if you will accept the Guardian.

Gonna live my life for a while now

Yes if you read my post I predicted that you would dismiss the information due to it being in the Telegraph, that's why I gave you a lawyer's opinion on the matter instead. Care to comment on the salient point, that the BBC are far from non partisan , as you'd claimed?

Yes seemingly some trans people are in prison who aren't counted in that data. Not sure why having even more trans people in prison than previously thought would be reassuring to people who want single sex spaces though?

Sure. The BBC themselves say regularly that the right wing think they favour the left and the left wing think they favour the right. And that this is how it should be

The context of the discussion is to estimate the rate of violent offences and sexual ones

Also MoJ says it isn’t clear where they are held

I agree with you that PPs have asked many, many questions straying very far from the original topic

You suggested the BBC as an impartial source, a lawyer says they're not. They 'both sides' on this subject in a way they wouldn't on eg whether the belief that the earth is flat should be given the same consideration as the belief it is not. They treat fact as belief (and arguably vice versa). They're not neutral.

That reflects the same attitude to women that has resulted in a man running a rape crisis centre telling raped women who don't want to be counseled by a man or in a support group with men to reframe their trauma.

"Sexual violence happens to bigoted people too. But if you bring beliefs that are discriminatory, expect to be challenged on your prejudice. Reframe your trauma"

A man, who by the way, was given a position that was specifically advertised as female only.

I too would probably be content with the situation that I think Poetry is describing: 'fully medically transitioned' transwomen sharing women's facilities. That's a level of risk I'm personally prepared to take, or ignore, in the general run of things

But it doesn't work.

We don't know who has 'fully transitioned'.
We cannot trust the 'just said some words' or 'just got me some boobs' men to stay out.
For many women, it leaves them nowhere safe to go.
It puts demands on men to have surgery they might not genuinely want.

So many reasons why not.

It's not really a right v left thing. E.g. it was the tories who proposed self-ID in 2017 and the major resistance in the UK has come from left wing women.

The idea that the BBC is impartial is laughable, they've been fucking shocking on this. They were stonewalled up to the eyeballs and they admit this affected their impartiality:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-59232736

The whole of Stephen Nolan's Stonewall podcast is well worth a listen but episode 10 deals specifically with their influence on the BBC:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p09ykc90

As well as reprimanding Justin Webb, they gagged Jenni Murray:

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jenni-murray-sunday-times-transgender-india-willoughby-a7616151.html

They broke their own editorial guidelines by allowing Rachel McKinnon (aka Veronica Ivy) to veto Nic Williams in a debate:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a7119f3c-33c0-11e9-a129-05a1d4d7c2a2?shareToken=f5d6f4d14c3c27be4703afd905cfcf11

They produced a programme for primary schools that told children there were more than 100 genders:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/6e58ab48-d19c-11e9-8748-e9a1563a9aa9?shareToken=07ed7f37e6317ad349089b834a02256f

They aired a hugely influential CBBC documentary called I Am Leo, championing child transition and featuring Polly Carmicheal describing puberty blockers as a pause button:

They absolutely eviscerated Graham Linehan on Newsnight (this is from 4 years ago and makes chilling watching now, in light of the Cass review):

That's probably enough links for now but let me know if you want any more.

@poetryandwine
Has anyone here tried to put an exact figure on the rate of sex crime committed by trans identified males? I think we're just saying there's no reason to assume the offending rate is out of proportion with the incarceration rate.

How about you, collectively, address the idea that the Sun, Telegraph, Daily Mail and any other media sources -besides the Times which we agree on but which is behind a paywall - are nonpartisan before making further demands?

And note that the Times features a gamut of reporting and opinions.

Also, the Beeb has invited hosted Blackburn on Newsnight since her letter. Too bad no one mentioned that

I personally would not be content with "fully medically transitioned transwomen" using female facilities but the rest of your post is spot on.

It is impossible to enforce and no one's rights should be dependent on having any kind of surgery especially where that surgery includes sterilisation.

Then you can reframe it to say that the BBC believe people with strong views frequently believe that they (the Beeb) favour the other side of the situation. And they think that is a good thing. This is a generally held hallmark of good journalism

An example here from Question Time. Professor Robert Winston states categorically that you can't change sex and in response Fiona Bruce says that there are people that would vehemently disagree with him and she needs to make that clear. Can you imagine a UK leading physicist on QT stating that the earth is round and then being told that there are people who vehemently disagree with her and that needs to be made clear.

Do you think the links posted above are hallmarks of good journalism?

Come on, you said the BBC were impartial, PP gave you plenty of evidence they're not.

Says it all ladies…

And LGQBT+ activists would agree! They write about how the Identity Unit is against them. Rather making my point

What do you all think when BBC gives airtime to Blackburn, Kathleen Stock, Rosie Duffield and others?

LGBQT+ activists could pick clips of their appearances and demand to know whether I thought the BBC favoured GC ideology.

I am not responding to cherry picked examples

I haven't linked to the sun, the telegraph or the daily mail.

I provided share tokens for the times articles - they should be accessible.

Who is Blackburn?

Well, you can, but it would be a very skewed framing. They give barely any time to feminist or gc viewpoints compared with TRA viewpoints.

The lead name in the law firm several of you keep referring to. You know, the source that’s so important because it’s written by Lawyers.

I would need actual metrics to believe this. A search reveals that the LGBQT+ community see the opposite bias - again, a sign of balance IMO

I suggest you listen to the Nolan podcast.

It's an interesting question, and I wonder what you'd need to search to find out.

Simple searches on things like Stonewall's information for mention of the terms "lesbian" vs "trans" have shown barely any recent mention of lesbians, and a huge recent emphasis on trans.

No, I don't have the links. Just a tediously tenacious memory.