To be upset that toddlers and babies are being subjected to this.

[flashbac]

This is abuse. What kind of parent takes their baby to a show like this?

For whatever reason, there appears to be an agenda to destroy the fabric of western society. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

People are easily manipulated, as is unsurprising when they get their values from the internet instead of their parents/grandparents, and when they have been fed a steady diet of drugs, junk food, reality TV and pornography masquerading as progressiveness, and educated within a system that places more value on play than learning.

It’s all so predictable.

Alas, social services do not remove children from anyone these days. I own a nursery and have sat through countless CP meetings where social workers have done nothing except throw money at problem families. This is how they deal with things now - no one is allowed to criticise or say anything that might offend; social services, like the police, are providing a customer service.

Of course, I’ve only dealt with very young children. God knows what would happen if a primary school child disclosed that they were the wrong gender but mum and dad didn’t believe it. I bet they would be removed for that.

Has our original ‘it’s a fake’ poster come back with anything to prove the footage is ‘fake’? And to apologize to the posters they insisted should be issuing apologies?

Or is that poster now too embarrassed?

Because even Ben’s dad has come out to confirm that yes, Ben’s video footage is him and not once did Ben’s dad say it was fake in anyway.

I mean, no statement from the owners of the company, nothing. Pretty hard to continue those ‘fake’ accusations in light of the lack of evidence to support. Just some bad faith takes.

I mean, this has gone international! If this was fake, the company by now would be all over the world’s news services declaring it is faked! Because that would be the story! But nothing…

Just a repeated script from different posters.

“IT’S FAKE! You fuckwits for believing the lies of the far right wing propaganda mills! If this was real then it is really fucked up and of course, I would then say it was ‘fucked up to take babies to sexualised performances!’ But, it IS fake!”

“no! It is not fake at all, show your proof!”

And then … crickets…

It seems to be playing out over the two threads.

@User8646382 But agenda coming from where/who and why?

There seemed to be good evidence that it looked edited and to be fair so many things are these days. Some really really clever fakes and deep fakes. I am very sceptical these days of everything and anything. Wouldn’t put it last an anti trans group / person to fake this or for a company to make this video to push their company / get attention / followers or some how monitize. Even extreme negative press can be very lucrative if done right. Or just to simply create a story for the sheer hell of seeing it go viral. Many People are bored and like to cause mayhem.
However if it really is real I am willing to be proved wrong and if so, god how bloody depressing that this has actually happened.

Seriously, we have addressed the ‘fake’ accusation upthread.

There are archive sites of the actual company’s URL with PR shots of the same performers!

What ‘good evidence’ was there? Did you even go and look at the video clips?

I looked at them frame by frame on my iMac, there really isn’t the ‘blur’ around the performers that some people tried to make out. And to repeat, some media agencies blurred the audience! The originals which are now everywhere on twitter, do not.

You might like to accuse people of ‘anti-trans’ stances. What the Fuck had this to do with trans people really? Or do trans people get some magic pass for writhing on the floor wearing a thong and stiletto healed boots. Seriously, most of the ‘faked’ evidence of people’s actions has come from extreme trans activists. Maybe you need to think about your own prejudices and why you jump to conclusions that people simply would fake such a thing.

Who the fuck would benefit from faking footage from a real company when that company’s owners could so easily refute it???

There was never any logic behind the ‘fake’ claims. Just lies.

Thought this commentary in the telegraph was spot on -

'What sort of parents would want to take their children to it?

I can’t say for certain. But I think I can take a guess. It’s the sort of parents who are so insufferably progressive that watching a show like this makes them feel even smugger than normal, if that’s possible. Just imagine the lovely warm glow of self-congratulation that must spread over them, as the leather-clad dancers gyrate and writhe.

“Gosh, I’m just SO open-minded! So incredibly tolerant and inclusive! I’m taking my nine-month-old baby to watch a load of semi-naked men prance about in make-up and thigh-length boots, and I don’t feel uncomfortable about it in the least! Imagine being the sort of hateful, bigoted old Tory prude who would object to all this innocent joy! I do hope my children grow up to be as kind, caring and compassionate as me!”

@PurpleWisteria1 thanks for returning to the thread.

I get the deep suspicion about everything on the internet. I really do. And seeing babies with highly sexualised content seems unlikely.

BUT

1. No one has said it's anything to do with trans. Why did you instinctively think it was about trans people? Also, It seems that if its anything negative to do with trans issues, do you automatically think "it's fake" or that it's posters being transphobic?

2. We HAVE said it's about Queer Theory and the breaking down of boundaries and normalising adult sexual behaviour around children. It's real and it's happening.

TBF, I think most rational people on first seeing the photos would think ‘nah, that’s not real. No one’s doing that in front of babies and toddlers.’ Not because they’re conspiracists or anything, just because it’s such a very strange thing to have happened that most people find it hard to get their heads around.

I would have, a few years ago, agreed with you but so much wacky stuff around drag and gender is going on now. Nothing needs to be faked because there are so many real stories that are unbelievable anyway.

See my post way earlier in the thread for links but off the top of my head -
A trans teacher in Canada with Z-cup prosthetic boobs.
A drag queen teaching sex education to children on the Isle of Man.
Rainbow dildo butt monkey.
The Family Sex Show.
Drag Queen story time.
Now almost naked drag queens for babies and toddlers.

Even 5 years ago they would have all been unthinkable but look where we are now.

I never thought it was fake. I even bypassed feelings of anger and despair to just feeling plain depressed that this is happening. I mean, if parents can involve their babies in things like this then there really is no hope.

I would also like to know why this is happening and why aren't the authorities protecting children. Things are breaking down really fast in this country.

Maybe. I do accept that people have let themselves be convinced that anyone who points out the potential dangers of lowering adult and children’s sexual boundaries is ‘hateful’.

It makes people feel progressive and kind and tolerant to do that.

And I wonder if those who automatically framed it that way will consider why and wonder what else they have dismissed that also might be happening.

I think we need to just continue to post this

www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/the-sexual-revolution-and-children-how-the-left-took-things-too-far-a-702679.html

And to remind posters to look up Foucault and his group and what they actively enabled, some taking advantage of, in the 1970s in France. And the impact that is still felt today.

All in the name of progressive thinking and the lowering of sexual boundaries.

For those who in their mind keep dismissing posters who bring up queer theory, the two women who started these events did so under the guise (it seems from their statement) of queer acceptance. Look at the origins of that movement. People need to remember and to keep in mind the origins and the motivation of those pushing those sexual boundaries.

Who benefits from lowered sexual boundaries in adults? Who benefits from lowered sexual boundaries of children?

All those who ultimately benefit ! I don’t believe it is any child who benefits. At all.

You know it’s fake right?

you came on here touting a possible agendas, maybe? But it’s well
know to be fake. It’s not even a good fake.

I am hoping it’s just innocent naïveté, or you have come here spouting shit to get people all wound up.

let me spell it out, just in case you missed it. FAKE!!

This is somewhat off topic. And perhaps naive of me, but I feel sorry for those parents now plastered all over the front pages and being vilified with calls for their babies to be taken from them fgs. Most of them look like they’re absolutely loving parents. And young.

What is utterly true is how women are socially conditioned from day one to please others, to question themselves and doubt their judgement. To be kind and serve the needs of others. Smile, no one’s died. Etc etc etc. It is a rare thing to have the courage to be able to say, in the moment, this doesn’t feel right. I don’t have to applaud to make this man in fetish gear in front of me feel happy. I can walk away. And then do it. Perhaps they weren’t even wholly aware what they signed up for…

Many of you are strong women. That’s great. MN can be a wonderful place to get logical hard headed thinking. Often that comes from experience. I’m not so sure that I wouldn’t be one of the agreers in the Asch experiment even if I privately thought they were wrong. Something like that could be going on here. Sometimes it takes an outsider to point out what’s going on before the scales drop away.

Prove it…

I feel sorry for those parents now plastered all over the front pages

Maybe they should have thought of that before attending

However if it really is real I am willing to be proved wrong and if so, god how bloody depressing that this has actually happened.

@PurpleWisteria1 - yes it is utterly depressing. I checked their Instagram before they locked it down and they had posted lots of this footage on their own account so it is unquestionably real.

Re the venue, I haven’t seen the floor plans but there is also a video of someone heading to the event and going into the building and walking through a number of rooms into a much larger back room which may be an extension?

The depressing part is the people defending the event, real or not. (Obviously it has been totally verified but even if these people believe it is not real, they are defending it which is almost as bad).

Well that's a right load of bollocks you've just spouted, isn't it?! rolls eyes and shakes head
We've gone through this time and again on this thread, maybe you should start reading it from the beginning and inwardly digest but here's a little clue... The stills and videos originated on the organisers own website!
If it was fake, why aren't those parents that were present speaking up in their own defence?
Why aren't the organisers, or the venues, or even the performers, calling it out as fake?
Because it's not fake, that's why!
Why are you so keen to deny this happened?

My point is that they didn’t think in part because we’re being sold the line that being progressive and kind is to be accepting of ever expanding boundaries. Highly intelligent feminist women I work with think like this. If they’re only shamed and vilified they’ll feel defensive and angry whereas we hope that they start to realise there’s a worrying wider agenda at work.

Let me just spell it out. This is real. The footage was on the actual Instagram page and website of the actual organisation.

Don’t be so gullible and start thinking why you would want to defend such an event.

Fucking hell the world is doomed.

do you understand why this pub has been specifically targeted?
do you see the agenda?
I literally read this tonight it’s so disgustingly pointedly fake. I would love to prove it I mean other than the weird growing and shrinking background and the changes in people of lighting, I am not a computer genius though so hey.

Just as an aside, have you watched the social dilemma? Interesting what can be sold as real when it’s actually fake news (is that you Donald?)
Have you read about the rise of deep faking?
Have you actually looked at the pubs website.

I have no agenda here, I am not in England I am not a drag artist or trans or even LGBTQ however I am also not fucking stupid. 🙄

"I am also not fucking stupid"

hate to break it to you...

This is not fake.

IT'S VERY VERY FUCKING REAL

I never said I was an oracle, @Timeflieshey. I’m but a humble observer of this Alice in Wonderland madness.

It is concerning how people are so easily manipulated these days. They seem to lack common sense and just be accepting of everything, even if it seems wrong.