To be upset that toddlers and babies are being subjected to this.

[flashbac]

This is abuse. What kind of parent takes their baby to a show like this?

Ta, Dicky! 😘

@SinnerBoy mumsnetting while holding a baby always leads to typos 🫣

What she actually got was extremely robust and substantiated debate, complete with information she hadn't had, a clarification on what queer theory actually is and a lot of questions she couldn't answer.

A good summary. It was a robust but civil and very informative thread. The posts were generally well considered and not at all offensive or abusive. There was no justification for pulling it other than OP getting miffed because others wouldn't adopt her POV without question.

Oh, can I borrow those pearls?

I stopped reading it when she said she wouldn’t take her baby to a strip club but couldn’t seem to understand why there was almost no difference between a strip club and a drag show.

Just impressed they can do it. I wouldn’t be able to do it lol.
doesn’t mean they should be doing it in front of kids or babies though.

It is rather telling though when a poster cannot see that Burlesque is a sexual act and denies the very essence of Burlesque is that it is only about titillation…

umm… what else is Burlesque for? Stripping off and admiring the body of the performer as what, an aspirational evaluation? A celebration of what a fine naked human specimen? … and the prancing around is what? Just building excitement of the big naked reveal of admiring the human form?

Why wouldn’t someone who wanted to admire the finest human forms not just go to a life model art class? What the fuck do people think all the prancing and posing is about if not titillation? Maybe some posters don’t find it titillating so dismiss it and the reality of the act.

Society is selling adults so clearly false narratives while lowering sexual boundaries.

Out of interest, does this forum believe that babies and toddlers should not go to festivals, carnivals, pride marches etc where many of these similar outfits are featured?

Example at Glastonbury, you have queer/cabaret/circus tents, semi naked people everywhere, extremely revealing outfits of people attending / performing, and a lot of people on drugs. But also thousands and thousands of children of all ages and babies.

Another example, Notting Hill Carnival, hundreds and hundreds of women and men dressed in very revealing outfits, doing very suggestive dances, and again lots of drinking, weed being smoked. Yet this is a family event.

Should all the parents who take their kids here be reported to social services?

A long time ago I might have taken my kid to festivals and pride and carnival

Those days are long gone.

"this forum" doesn't have a singular view on the issue as I'm sure even five minutes reading it would tell anyone.

I would not take young children to any event where people were naked, half naked or dressed in fetish gear. I can't speak for anyone else.

Where’s the false narrative though? How do we know that this wasn’t sold to those women as exactly what it is - a sex show?

Just because these women are wearing clothes and have hairstyles that lead us assume they belong to the educated, metropolitan, Mumsnet demographic, doesn’t make them victims of deception. They know it’s a sex show, they’re not stupid. They are just as complicit as the performers.

If these women were fat and looked like prison wardens, I guarantee that no one would be calling them naive or misguided. They would be calling this a paedophile ring, and they wouldn’t be far wrong.

At Glastonbury you can take children and keep them quite safe from inappropriate sights. These silly women are taking babies directly in to a performance they know is inappropriate. I wouldn’t take a child to pride any more because of pervs dresses as pups etc

Perhaps you could avoid that kind of thing at a large festival? But no, I wouldn't take my kids to a festival or event where a lot of adults would be drunk or on drugs or there would be any sexual content. Personally that's not the kind of environment I'd want them exposed to. That kind of thing can be alarming and unsettling for kids.

I don't mind nudity in a completely non sexual context, e.g. in the women's changing room at the swimming pool where it is purely functional.

Sorry but isn't it slightly transphobic to label men dressed in feminine clothes as perverts and paedos?

What evidence is there that the performers at this event specifically are either of those things?

It is sick, evil, depraved and perverse.

Any parent that supports it would concern me,

Kids shouldn't be an audience for sexualised entertainment or drug taking. It's never okay.

How is it transphobic if they aren’t trans? They are drag performers not trans women. Also who said the performers were pervs and paedos? Exposing children to sexualised routines is wrong regardless of who is performing, don’t you agree?

Where did you see this happen, summer?

The organisers, most of the performers and most of the audience were women.

Ordinary, vagina-owning women.

Trans has nothing to do with any of it.

@VitaminX @Eyerollcentral yes there are child friendly things but you'd have to encounter a lot of 'unsafe' stuff to get around the festival. There's some amazing sensory experiences that children would absolutely love but you've got people all around you tripping balls. I mean I doubt they would notice but still.

It's just interesting isn't it, that so many parents take their kids to these events - it must be tens of thousands every year. Glasto has absolutely loads of kids. I feel they are actually more unsafe... a toddler could be running around and pick up drugs fallen on the floor etc

Trans has nothing to do with any of it

i know but there have been a fair few posters trying to make it a thing….most never came back to explain

It's reaching to pull out every other event you can think of to try and justify one

It's reaching to pull the transphobia label out your arse when they're drag performers

Why are you trying to justify people gyrating in thongs and in bondage gear in front of children? @summerhillgang

So now it’s drugs not the sexualised performers who are the problem? Tbf friends of mine took their daughter to glasto so I do have some experience here. The child was safe at all times. It’s not hard to keep children away from drugs at events like glasto.

I mean, it's actually illegal.

Engaging in sexual activity in the presence of a child/ Causing a child to watch a sexual act

Sexual Offences Act 2003, s.11, Sexual Offences Act 2003, s.12

www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/engaging-in-sexual-activity-in-the-presence-of-a-child/

Is that the correct one, I'm not sure I got it. It was on the other thread.

@ArabellaScott that's all that should be needed

The most alarming thing to me is the amount of posters who skate over it and think it doesn't apply here because the organisers declare it's fine