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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be upset that toddlers and babies are being subjected to this.

919 replies

flashbac · 03/03/2023 20:20

This is abuse. What kind of parent takes their baby to a show like this?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
32
ItchySnoof · 04/03/2023 17:11

LikeTearsInRain · 04/03/2023 11:02

The pics and vids make it look like great fun tbh. Most of the people there appear to be enjoying it. Seems it’s mostly for the adults with babies just chilling?

So does pole dancing. I bet if men sat there having great fun watching women dance and shake their arses and do the splits (without getting naked even) their children would sit there "chilling?" too.

Or is that different because it's a woman and not in a public library?

Mannymoomin · 04/03/2023 17:22

CryptoFascistMadameCholet · 04/03/2023 10:15

Feeling old due to my licensing info being out of date 😆😅 (I last worked in this field in the 90s!) thank you for the correction though, I was impressed to come across a booklet that Leicester council issue to landlords re: looking out for children at risk of sexual exploitation.

Just in case you didn’t find them easily and seeing as I just summarised for someone else I will copy over here too (would’ve done it last night but half asleep):

The venues in the Caba Baba Rave photos are from:

The Birds in Leytonstone
www.thebirds.pub

Patchworks in Leyton
www.patchworks.xyz

and at first glance I think the mp for both is John Cryer? He’s Labour.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cryer

Council is Waltham Forest.

They’ve used several other venues
but all the photos I’ve seen so far seem to be from the above two. If any more photos surface I will try and find locations for them.

The orange bewigged drag queen with the little girl standing behind him is a completely separate event, in South East London (Honor Oak Pub, SE23 IJG, Borough of Lewisham, MP Vicky Foxcroft, Labour - this is the venue that has had protests outside so the authorities know about it but perhaps the licensing authorities need a direct complaint as a separate thing?)

Red boots performer: The Birds
Blue outfit performer: Patchworks
(I think both of these are the same man? Drag name is Lucinda B Hind)

Orange Wig performer: Honor Oak Pub
(drag queen is called Copper Topp)

The little girl’s face can be seen in the video I took this still from, which is on instagram. I wish I had a way to show her expression that didn’t overstep the boundaries of her privacy.

Thank you, that’s really helpful.

Judging by the amount of bad publicity this seems to have received, and the protest, I’m sure the police and local authority council are already aware, but hopefully the more people that complain the better, if it prevents this from happening again and makes license holders think twice before hiring out their venues, then great.

I’ve submitted a complaint to the local authority council licensing team rather than the police, as If they aren’t aware already, the council will inform them.

As an aside from the obvious licensing breaches, My 15 year old dd has already been brainwashed by this trans rights movement, it’s taken many months in convincing her that women’s rights and privacy is in danger as a result, before anyone flames me, I’m not anti trans at all, far from it actually, but they should be campaigning for their own cause rather than shoving their ideologies on everyone else.

Its taken so many years for women to get where we are, it’s like the next and future generations are being radicalised into believing it’s acceptable for trans people to be sharing changing rooms and prisons with women where it’ll only be infiltrated with peadoes and sex offenders that see an opportunity to harm us.

Sorry for the rant.

EpicChaos · 04/03/2023 17:23

LindorDoubleChoc · 04/03/2023 07:57

Pity me. The Honor Oak Pub in London has just hosted a Drag story time event and the protests against it on the day were hijacked by the hideous far right group Turning Point UK. It made the news, you might have seen it.

Now another popular pub in nearby East Dulwich is planning to do the same and shouting out on social media for residents to come and defend them from Turning Point. Well I don't align myself with Turning Point in any way whatsoever but I feel the need to object to these events. Wtf do I do?

@LindorDoubleChoc Too late mate, having voiced that opinion here, you are now automatically " far right ", so you might as well just go and stand next to the turning point group and make your actual voice heard.
If people supporting these shows think you are guilty by association, have a think about the association/s they are guilty of! I know which i'd rather be associated with and it's not that lot!

@Morestrangethings " At the same time I have a problem with publicly shaming the parents, (all women by the look of it), by publishing their faces on the internet. And it’s not okay to put any children’s faces on the internet. "

I disagree, i think those women taking their tots to see this, should be absolutely shamed, to high heavens! I hope their other friends and neighbours give them the side eye and actively avoid them in future, they're definitely not the sort of people i'd want in my friendship groups.
Have any of them actually broken cover yet?
As for the pics with the kids in them, I'd like to know who took them in the first place?

EpicChaos · 04/03/2023 17:44

" @RealMcKoy · Today 08:30
It never ceases to amaze me that it seems to be educated, middle class white straight women who seem to be the biggest non LGB set of people who have fallen for Queer Theory hook line and sinker.

I think desperation for friendship is also part of it. The working class, especially the poorer members, are less likely to have benefitted from social mobility and so maybe haven't moved far from the homes they grew up in, so will still see family, old school friends/neighbours, etc., on a more or less daily basis. Whereas, the university attenders will likely have moved away from all that was familiar and once stuck at home with a child/ren, then they're even more cut off from the company of other women, so they go to stuff like this to try and fit into a friendship group, imo.

@piedbeauty · Today 08:11
" Ones who are so "open minded" that their brains have fallen out.
Yes!!
Honestly, I'm embarrassed for them. What a bunch of muppets. What are they thinking?! "

Point of order!
That's a grievous insult to muppets!

Tryingtodobetter82 · 04/03/2023 17:52

WTAF is that!! This is disgusting. Surely needs a petition to stop. Or even someone to raise this with authorities. It’s disgusting 🤮

SnackSizeRaisin · 04/03/2023 18:04

What are people's thoughts about Mr tumble? That involves drag (at the tamer end). It always seems a little odd to me although harmless enough. Doubt most kids even notice. Does anyone have an issue with that?

SinnerBoy · 04/03/2023 18:05

Oh dear.

Oysterbabe · 04/03/2023 18:06

I must have missed the episode of Mr Tumble when he put on a thong and twerked his arse cheeks in the kids' faces.

ScrollingLeaves · 04/03/2023 18:15

lifeturnsonadime · Today 17:07

Responding to Moira…

Why are women to blame for QT?

Because women are sitting here smiling at this man in the picture gyrating to the babies they are holding?

Because Judith Butler was a woman (I think) who said the gender was a performative social structure, and in the end so is ‘sex’, so woman thought that to be good feminists they should follow this?

Because women have fallen for ‘sex positivity’?

Because DQSH was started by a woman?

Because you get a headmistress of a High School in the Isle of Man bringing in an unqualified drag queen to teach sex education to 11 year olds including telling them about anal sex, promoting under age sex being self-filmed….. and on and on, that’s just the start?

Because you have women like those two Welsh councillors (or MPs?) bitterly objecting to a rugby organisation saying the women’s club must be for biological women only, not men identifying as women, because because excluding such men is not ‘inclusive’? Women willing to see other women tackled to a pulp?

Because you had Teresa May promising self-ID without thinking through the consequences?

Because the woman who is currently head of education is so pro-trans ideology that she is willing to forget the Cass report in regard to the care of children in schools who may be caught up in the epidemic of ROGD, or other complex mental needs, and may end up making needless life altering, and life harming decisions about their bodies as a result?

But men are doing the DQSH to children. And lots of fathers and men are standing by and not saying anything, not ‘interfering’ with other men and their choices.

How many husbands have refused to sign this petition, because of being so protective of men who say they are women, that they don’t actually want clarity in the law about sex being biological - which would help protect and re-establish sex based spaces for women, and sex based rights in general, without fear from discrimination litigation?petition.parliament.uk/petitions/623243

Look at Kier Starmer too, a man, ready to bring out self-ID that will never really affect him.

To be upset that toddlers and babies are being subjected to this.
PurpleWisteria1 · 04/03/2023 18:19

ITS FAKE.
for the love of god people. You need to learn to not trust anything you see online. Deep fakes and clever editing abound. Got help you going forward and with AI becoming more and more prevalent if you can’t spot this is fake.
Hilariously edited, blurry, parts missing (like the person in a thongs heel) lighting and shadows not matching etc.

RufustheSpeculatingreindeer · 04/03/2023 18:20

gonna need more than your word there purple

Timeflieshey · 04/03/2023 18:21

@PurpleWisteria1 I agree, it does look odd..but why fake it? Also if it was fake, if you were one of the mums in it, wouldn’t you be going nuts and saying it was fake etc?

RufustheSpeculatingreindeer · 04/03/2023 18:21

Plus even the organisers who videoed it and put it on their website haven’t said its fake, soooooo…

PurpleWisteria1 · 04/03/2023 18:22

RufustheSpeculatingreindeer · 04/03/2023 18:20

gonna need more than your word there purple

Just do some digging if you dont believe me. The building this supposedly happened it doesn’t have a room like this- couldn’t possibly with the style and size of the building!

Redglitter · 04/03/2023 18:22

At the same time I have a problem with publicly shaming the parents, (all women by the look of it), by publishing their faces on the internet

Why? They chose to take their very young children to the event. They knew what it was. Damn right they should be both shamed & ashamed

As a matter of interest has anyone seen any comments from the attendees explaining what on earth possessed them to go & if they stand by their decision

RufustheSpeculatingreindeer · 04/03/2023 18:23

PurpleWisteria1 · 04/03/2023 18:22

Just do some digging if you dont believe me. The building this supposedly happened it doesn’t have a room like this- couldn’t possibly with the style and size of the building!

Thats already been covered

possibly on the other thread

PurpleWisteria1 · 04/03/2023 18:23

Timeflieshey · 04/03/2023 18:21

@PurpleWisteria1 I agree, it does look odd..but why fake it? Also if it was fake, if you were one of the mums in it, wouldn’t you be going nuts and saying it was fake etc?

Well yes you would - but then who would you be going mad at? How would you even know who edited it and for what purpose?

Timeflieshey · 04/03/2023 18:25

@PurpleWisteria1 You could put it out there in the media/news…I wouldn’t want my face and my child’s associated with this…especially if I didn’t even go/it wasn’t real!

ScrollingLeaves · 04/03/2023 18:26

SnackSizeRaisin · Today 18:04
What are people's thoughts about Mr tumble? That involves drag (at the tamer end). It always seems a little odd to me although harmless enough. Doubt most kids even notice. Does anyone have an issue with that?

SnackSizeRaisin, I think a little ‘Compare and Contrast’ exercise from these two images will give you your answer.

Mr Tumble is on the left. Aida H.Dee, DQSH aficionado all around the country, including dragged in by the Tate Liverpool, is on the right.

To be upset that toddlers and babies are being subjected to this.
To be upset that toddlers and babies are being subjected to this.
Oysterbabe · 04/03/2023 18:26

If it's fake (it isn't) this is an odd statement for the organisers make isn't it?

To be upset that toddlers and babies are being subjected to this.
Igneococcus · 04/03/2023 18:28

How did you research this @PurpleWisteria1 ? Online, by chance?

GoodChat · 04/03/2023 18:28

PurpleWisteria1 · 04/03/2023 18:19

ITS FAKE.
for the love of god people. You need to learn to not trust anything you see online. Deep fakes and clever editing abound. Got help you going forward and with AI becoming more and more prevalent if you can’t spot this is fake.
Hilariously edited, blurry, parts missing (like the person in a thongs heel) lighting and shadows not matching etc.

There's someone on this thread who knows one of the organisers.

ScrollingLeaves · 04/03/2023 18:29

Oysterbabe · Today 18:26
If it's fake (it isn't) this is an odd statement for the organisers make isn't it?

(Oyster’s image not copied.)

What an extraordinary use of the word ‘curated’ given what those babies were shown. Doesn’t that sound intellectual?

Boiledbeetle · 04/03/2023 18:32

PurpleWisteria1 · 04/03/2023 18:19

ITS FAKE.
for the love of god people. You need to learn to not trust anything you see online. Deep fakes and clever editing abound. Got help you going forward and with AI becoming more and more prevalent if you can’t spot this is fake.
Hilariously edited, blurry, parts missing (like the person in a thongs heel) lighting and shadows not matching etc.

Seems someone has been reading a wishful thinking Twitter thread

OneLongSmorgasbord · 04/03/2023 18:35

It isn't fake and it reeks of desperation that anyone is claiming that it is.
Go watch the videos yourself and check, it's all out there for you to see.
The organisers didn't deny it, just called everyone trolls if they complained.

So assuming it's not fake, would you say it was inappropriate?