To find media discussion about trans issues far overstated compared to the actual seriousness of the issue?

[BarmyBrunhilde]

Full disclosure, I happily accept most trans people I've met as their transitioned gender which I know puts me at odds with most people on MN. But as a feminist and a lefty, even if one views trans women as men which I don't, in terms of political priorities it ranks so list on my list of concerns. I assume that applies to most people too (trans people included!).

What someone has listed on their birth certificate has no impact on my life, and surely minimal impact on most women's lives? Imo we should be focusing on cost of living crisis, housing, properly funding women's services including rape crisis services, funding childcare, sorting out the health service and bloody schools! Gender recognition comes way below those for me (even though I'm broadly supportive with some checks in place).

I know gender criticals won't agree with me, and maybe some trans people who feel very strongly, but I do feel there's a silent majority of us who just aren't that fussed?

I see this brought out time and time again.

Why do I have to define them?

What's the use of a category you're not able to define?

If you would genuinely welcome debate why are you on the echo chamber that is Mumsnet? I am sure there are plenty of sites where you can debate with people who disagree with you on trans issues.

Why do you keep calling it an echo chamber? You’re here and you plainly disagree with the majority of commenters on this thread. Can you summarise the argument in favour of ignoring the significance of biological sex and removing provision of single sex spaces, sports and services?

Funny all these people hanging out in an echo chamber they despise.

Here's your opportunity, Orchid.

Simply put, because it is not down to anyone else to explain it to you.

We might despise it but we are still allowed to be here, that's tbe beauty of the internet.

So women have to accept the definition of woman being changed and their rights being taken away without even an explanation? Much progressive.

As its AIBU it's been slightly kinder but you know as well as I do that youd have to be either a new poster or daft to set out your position in this forum if you dont agree with the masses.

Hopefully that answers your question too @Ereshkigalangcleg re being able to define.

We are alwyas being told how women dont want to be kind and are saying no, well we are too.

It's just a bit sad, really though. All those awful women who value women's rights, when there are a million welcoming misogynist sites?

Also dont be disingenuous. I'm not taking your rights away. I just have different views

I'm refusing to be bullied into answering questions that will just be torn apart by numerous posters anyway because I'm just not that daft.

Two different things.

Simply put, because it is not down to anyone else to explain it to you.

Well that’s a novel approach. “I demand that you unquestioningly accept my point of view or else you are a big meanie but I am not prepared to explain what my pov is or why you should agree with me”

Unfortunately that is not going to get us very far. Stonewall refuses to have any open discussion on this, the Scottish government refuses to have any open discussion on this - who do you suggest I ask and how can we move forward?

I value womens rights too, and I'm not a misogynist, and neither is OP or orchid. Not sure the point you are trying to make.

Another sex offender who will be able to self ID to gain a GRC and a move to a female prison. Irrelevant piece of admin that doesn't affect female rights my ass.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scots-sex-offender-who-abducted-29012078

I don't think I've seen 'because I said so' played out quite so baldly on a thread.

Also dont be disingenuous. I'm not taking your rights away. I just have different views

Not everything is about you, as I've said before. But your "reasoning" such as it is, isn't going to convince many people that the biological sex class of human female doesn't need a definition and a rights movement.

Perhaps you could question how you (not you) personally are asking. Is one genuinely asking for welcome debate and acceptance this isnt a black and white issue or is one demanding? One is quite different to the other

I said about a year ago on here that no real progress would be made unless people were willing to listen to each other. I take polls with a pinch of salt. What we are proving particularly ar tbe moment is that we havenr got anywhere.

I don't think I've seen 'because I said so' played out quite so baldly on a thread.

It's this poster's schtick.

Yes, we all know how self important you think I am, given that you respond to points I'm making then play shocked when I respond to you.

You can demand your definition all you like. Good luck with that.

Lol at the idea we should base laws on a concept that we don’t have to legally define

I value womens rights too, and I'm not a misogynist, and neither is OP or orchid.

You don't know anything about those people, so not sure why you confidently claim this. I disagree with your statement, anyway.

Is this the part where I respond to that and then you say its not all about me?

You really need to deal with that wee obsession with me you have. It's really getting quite uncomfortable.

Lol at the idea we should base laws on a concept that we don’t have to legally define

Indeed.

Like I care.