To find media discussion about trans issues far overstated compared to the actual seriousness of the issue?

[BarmyBrunhilde]

Full disclosure, I happily accept most trans people I've met as their transitioned gender which I know puts me at odds with most people on MN. But as a feminist and a lefty, even if one views trans women as men which I don't, in terms of political priorities it ranks so list on my list of concerns. I assume that applies to most people too (trans people included!).

What someone has listed on their birth certificate has no impact on my life, and surely minimal impact on most women's lives? Imo we should be focusing on cost of living crisis, housing, properly funding women's services including rape crisis services, funding childcare, sorting out the health service and bloody schools! Gender recognition comes way below those for me (even though I'm broadly supportive with some checks in place).

I know gender criticals won't agree with me, and maybe some trans people who feel very strongly, but I do feel there's a silent majority of us who just aren't that fussed?

YANBU OP, and I find it very odd, too. As the above replies illustrate, there is a level of emotion and vitriol around the subject disproportionate to the level it affects the lives of most women. I suspect the issue has been deliberately inflamed by those acting in bad faith on both sides.

Things I, and the other women I know in real life, worry about:
Uneven distribution of household duties and the caring burden
Male-on-female domestic abuse (I know of many cases, all of the perpetrators cis men)
Universal credit and its impact on lone parents (disproportionately mothers)
The high cost/ unavailability of childcare
Entrenched sexist attitudes in, for example, schools.
Increasing misogyny on social media being adopted by teens and younger men
The incredibly low rape conviction rate.

Reading this list back, I could easily believe that the controversy could have been deliberately stoked by cis men in order to deflect attention from the far, far, FAR greater threat they pose to the wellbeing of women.

I certainly have, and I'm truly sorry for the experiences you've had, I am also a survivor. Can you explain to me how someone having a GRC makes that experience more likely to happen? Have read up on this in some detail, I can't work it out as I don't think GRCs and hospital wards have any relation to each other?

You certainly have? You've been through surgeries that render you unable to do much for yourself or move much to the point you're dependent on others for intimate care?

Can you lay out for me, in a practical context, where a Gender Recognition Certificate will make a different in women's everyday lives?

Because if you can change your sex by law, how can single sex spaces (biologically) be lawfully upheld?

May not make any difference to you, but what about the women prisoners, abuse victims, sick/disabled, orthodox religious who this does matter to?

Theyre just collateral damage to you, is that it? You couldn't give a flying?

Meaning no disrespect, I think you could do with going away and doing a lot more of your own research before you continue with this conversation. There's a lot you seem to have missed!

Well I've had a c-section, and I was moving very much for 24 hours, although my husband and mother were the main ones caring for me in that scenario! I do see what anyone of that has to do with gender recognition certificates, perhaps you could clarify that for me in practical terms?

unless you can provide a practical day to day situation where trans woman have GRC affects women, than I'm not going to have an issue

I have non-verbal, learning disabled young woman in my family. Her parents, rightly, need to know that their daughter will receive intimate care by a woman for their daughters dignity and safety.
If any man over 16 in Scotland can now get a certificate that says yes a woman in law, then they can’t stop those men from giving intimate care to their daughter.

See the problem yet OP?

Oooo you’re brave 😁

<gets popcorn>

As far as I can see, you're correct - Gender Recognition Certificates are irrelevant. That being the case, I object to any time and money being spent on legislation about them.

I also see no reason to ever segregate spaces by gender. Where it's necessary to segregate males and females for reasons of safety, privacy and dignity then this should be by sex. It should not be necessary to change anything to make this the case, but where boundaries are being pushed and there is currently a lack of clarity, a simple updating of the terminology used in the Equalities Act should be enough.

No-one should be mocked or threatened or disadvantaged in terms of housing, employment or healthcare because of the way they present or how they feel they are inside - current legislation already supports this.

Yes, there's a right moral panic vibe to much that is said/claimed. On here it's pretty much pitchforks at dawn. But no one is phobic, 'course they aren't 🙄 Only "critical"... 🙄🙄🙄

How are single sex spaces currently upheld with regards to trans women, and how will that change with the change in the law in Scotland? I've not had this explained in any meaningful or material sense, but you seem very passionate, so I'm sure you can do so for me?

a simple updating of the terminology used in the Equalities Act should be enough.

Except that this had not been tabled by the Scottish Government, as far as I know.

Can you lay out for me, in a practical context, where a Gender Recognition Certificate will make a different in women's everyday lives? Not an abstract philosophical question about what a woman is, but a material instance, where someone having a GRC will harm women?

You go for a smear test. You request a female as you don't feel comfortable having a male intimately examine you. The person that turns up is clearly male. The surgery insist they are female as they have an amended birth certificate that says so.

You walk away without having a test that could mean life or death.

No it hasn't. It's obviously out of scope for the Scottish Parliament in any case, but they haven't mentioned clarifying the distinction between sex and gender at all. Why might that be?

Do employers ask to see the birth certificates of their employees? I've worked in many companies, seen many a CV across my desk, and have never seen anyone's birth certificate other than my own and my children's (and perhaps my husband's?)

Do employers ask to see the birth certificates of their employees? I've worked in many companies, seen many a CV across my desk, and have never seen anyone's birth certificate other than my own and my children's (and perhaps my husband's?)

I had to show my birth certificate at every employer I have ever worked at.

Well I've had a c-section, and I was moving very much for 24 hours, although my husband and mother were the main ones caring for me in that scenario

Yeah, no. You can't understand. That doesn't come anywhere near understanding true vulnerability where you have knowledge of the importance of being able to have a female carer if you ask for it. You had two loved ones to look out for you and protect you rather than a stranger washing you alone in a bathroom or a private room, for example.

Maybe have a read about how many women with learning disabilities experience sexual assault. Maybe look into the stats regarding how many of those victims see justice. Maybe look at the levels of sexual assault in psychiatric hospitals and prisons (with regards vulnerable women who are either medicated or have head injuries).

I find your posts to be pretty disingenuous so I'll leave replying any further. Do you think women here are so concerned and are spending so much time fighting this issue because they aren't aware there are other issues to pay attention to? Do you think we're that stupid or ignorant?

So do you agree op that GRC should be scrapped since they are pointless admin of no use to trans people?

If not, what use to trans people are they since they, and reform to make them easier to get, are lobbied for so strongly?

Hopefully the equality act will be updated to clarify that sex means biological sex. It really would sort everything out, from what I can tell. Grcs would then be, as OP states, meaningless. They'd make things nice for those who want the paperwork sorted, but would be irrelevant to everyone else. That means everyone wins.

Well I'll ignore your rudeness and ask you to clarify - are birth certificates being asked of trans people to enter toilets? It seems rather unlikely, so perhaps you can clarify (with examples I'm sure) of birth certificates working as 'arbiters' of single sex spaces under the current system?

As op says, surely we have too much else to worry about to spend time on legislation to make paperwork "nice"?

A patient nearly didn't get justice after being raped as her attacker had a GRC so the hospital said there were no males present.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/17/hospital-told-police-patient-not-raped-alleged-attacker-transgender/

It seems rather unlikely, so perhaps you can clarify (with examples I'm sure) of birth certificates working as 'arbiters' of single sex spaces under the current system?

If there are challenges or any doubts, yes.

There would be an option for them to be checked in cases of employment or access to women only spaces.