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To find media discussion about trans issues far overstated compared to the actual seriousness of the issue?

1000 replies

BarmyBrunhilde · 20/01/2023 22:18

Full disclosure, I happily accept most trans people I've met as their transitioned gender which I know puts me at odds with most people on MN. But as a feminist and a lefty, even if one views trans women as men which I don't, in terms of political priorities it ranks so list on my list of concerns. I assume that applies to most people too (trans people included!).

What someone has listed on their birth certificate has no impact on my life, and surely minimal impact on most women's lives? Imo we should be focusing on cost of living crisis, housing, properly funding women's services including rape crisis services, funding childcare, sorting out the health service and bloody schools! Gender recognition comes way below those for me (even though I'm broadly supportive with some checks in place).

I know gender criticals won't agree with me, and maybe some trans people who feel very strongly, but I do feel there's a silent majority of us who just aren't that fussed?

OP posts:
Rainbowshit · 21/01/2023 00:37

Shon "enjoy ur erasure" Faye.

Give me strength. 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

lifeturnsonadime · 21/01/2023 00:37

BarmyBrunhilde · 21/01/2023 00:35

www.waterstones.com/book/the-transgender-issue/shon-faye/9780141991801 Well this book really clarified my thinking on this, from you posting it seems like you could learn a lot from it! (Seems like listening and learn could be well applied for many others on this thread too 😌)

And this one really clarified mine

www.waterstones.com/book/trans/helen-joyce/9780861543724

BarmyBrunhilde · 21/01/2023 00:37

howmanybicycles · 21/01/2023 00:36

Gosh OP. There is so much traffic on this thread that I think you missed this. Its a really important question though so please do answer.

I think you should read this - it will be very educational for someone like you www.waterstones.com/book/the-transgender-issue/shon-faye/9780141991801

OP posts:
Rainbowshit · 21/01/2023 00:38

Rainbowshit · 21/01/2023 00:37

Shon "enjoy ur erasure" Faye.

Give me strength. 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

Rainbowshit
So if I wear trousers and adopt a low speaking voice do I get to achieve equal pay?

Sorry no. This is a men's rights movement. It only benefits biological males. Same old same old.

God damn, it. I thought there might be something in this transgender thing for me!

WalkthisWayUK · 21/01/2023 00:38

BarmyBrunhilde · 21/01/2023 00:35

www.waterstones.com/book/the-transgender-issue/shon-faye/9780141991801 Well this book really clarified my thinking on this, from you posting it seems like you could learn a lot from it! (Seems like listening and learn could be well applied for many others on this thread too 😌)

STILL you cannot answer me on GRC, which so obviously affects data on Death Certificates! Ha ha. You want me to read a strange book instead?

No I deal with data and reasoned arguments. And this is probaby the 10th time I’ve asked you directly to defend your position on death certificates. And you. Have. Not! 😂

howmanybicycles · 21/01/2023 00:39

BarmyBrunhilde · 21/01/2023 00:35

www.waterstones.com/book/the-transgender-issue/shon-faye/9780141991801 Well this book really clarified my thinking on this, from you posting it seems like you could learn a lot from it! (Seems like listening and learn could be well applied for many others on this thread too 😌)

I learnt a lot from Helen Joyce's book. I think it might help you educate yourself. I really recommend you read it. It will help you see the negative consequences for women of gender self Id

Waitwhat23 · 21/01/2023 00:39

BarmyBrunhilde · 21/01/2023 00:35

www.waterstones.com/book/the-transgender-issue/shon-faye/9780141991801 Well this book really clarified my thinking on this, from you posting it seems like you could learn a lot from it! (Seems like listening and learn could be well applied for many others on this thread too 😌)

This Shon Faye?

To find media discussion about trans issues far overstated compared to the actual seriousness of the issue?
FontSnob · 21/01/2023 00:39

So many of you projecting so many things onto me, not that I’m surprised. I am totally comfortable with my very well researched personal stance on transgender rights.

WalkthisWayUK · 21/01/2023 00:40

DEATH CERTIFICATES.

Facts. Data.

Very important to be accurate. 😊

Very bad to change sex on a death certificate and not be accurate. As a specific request of GRC. 😞

STILL no answer to this OP?

lifeturnsonadime · 21/01/2023 00:40

FontSnob · 21/01/2023 00:39

So many of you projecting so many things onto me, not that I’m surprised. I am totally comfortable with my very well researched personal stance on transgender rights.

So -

What is transgender?

What is gender identity?

How does a person know if they have one?

Perfectpeace · 21/01/2023 00:40

BarmyBrunhilde · 21/01/2023 00:37

You assumed I was male because I disagreed with you, then when I challenged you on your false assumption, you justified it by saying that no woman could hold that view?

I said no feminist would think like you. Any woman who holds the same opinion as you is no feminist.

Now please answer the questions asked of you instead of frantically googling random books and articles you have no doubt not bothered to read.

If you truly are a woman you are a disgrace to your sex.

Vintagevixen · 21/01/2023 00:41

"Very educational for someone like you"

That patronising tone is definitely male. Get thee back to twitter and have a chat with your best mates Owen Jones and Billy Bragg!

Rainbowshit · 21/01/2023 00:41

FontSnob · 21/01/2023 00:39

So many of you projecting so many things onto me, not that I’m surprised. I am totally comfortable with my very well researched personal stance on transgender rights.

What rights don't transgender people have?

WalkthisWayUK · 21/01/2023 00:41

FontSnob · 21/01/2023 00:39

So many of you projecting so many things onto me, not that I’m surprised. I am totally comfortable with my very well researched personal stance on transgender rights.

Maybe you can answer about death certificates then and tell me why we should dilute and degrade the data for medical research by changing sex on them?

howmanybicycles · 21/01/2023 00:41

BarmyBrunhilde · 21/01/2023 00:37

I think you should read this - it will be very educational for someone like you www.waterstones.com/book/the-transgender-issue/shon-faye/9780141991801

Can you answer my question please? What percentage is OK?

Rainbowshit · 21/01/2023 00:42

FontSnob · 21/01/2023 00:39

So many of you projecting so many things onto me, not that I’m surprised. I am totally comfortable with my very well researched personal stance on transgender rights.

Why if they're transgender is it so important for their sex to be charged on their birth certificate?

WalkthisWayUK · 21/01/2023 00:43

A simple question OP and
@FontSnob

If you get a disease in the future and the treatment isn’t as targeted becasue of lack of accurate data, and your qualtiy of life is less because of it.

Will it all be worth it to be allies to ideas such as changing facts on death certiticates?

Simple quesiton…

And I would be AMAZED if you try and answer it!

Rainbowshit · 21/01/2023 00:46

Here one example of what can happen when sex is obscured.

metro.co.uk/2019/05/20/pregnant-transgender-mans-baby-died-because-nurse-didnt-realize-he-was-in-labor-9613972/

Hagpie · 21/01/2023 00:46

Yeah it’s true people are taking their hate of trans people and doing what they can to justify it. I don’t sit watching the news trying to come to the conclusion that cis white women are dangerous but I have a life. The fact is a minority of those in the UK are cowards and will happily lap up trans people are xyz, singly mothers have rotted our society, people on boats are coming for our jobs etc because life is hard especially atm. It takes courage to stand up for what’s right and lots don’t have it in them right now or never had it.

howmanybicycles · 21/01/2023 00:47

Sadly I'm going to have to give up on OP answering any questions and 'educating' us. I will just leave wit the thought that, if a person is a woman only if they 'feel like a woman', then moat former women are not women. So who do the males actually feel like? Other TW? How will you then protect the former women who are still disadvantaged despite no longer being a woman?

howmanybicycles · 21/01/2023 00:48

Hagpie · 21/01/2023 00:46

Yeah it’s true people are taking their hate of trans people and doing what they can to justify it. I don’t sit watching the news trying to come to the conclusion that cis white women are dangerous but I have a life. The fact is a minority of those in the UK are cowards and will happily lap up trans people are xyz, singly mothers have rotted our society, people on boats are coming for our jobs etc because life is hard especially atm. It takes courage to stand up for what’s right and lots don’t have it in them right now or never had it.

I don't hate trans people. I have entitled males in women's spaces. Regardless of their gender identity identity

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 21/01/2023 00:50

I may be guilty of stating the ridiculously obvious here, but if there is one person who will never see or know what is on a death certificate, it is the person who has died. It is about you, but it is not for you.

Indeed, one of the main purposes of a death certificate is to enable other people to deal with winding up all of the final affairs for you - there is no option but for other (living) people to carry out all of these tasks for you, because you are dead.

Many of us have observed the obvious arrogance about all the 'state your pronouns' business that it is trying to dictate to other people how they may refer to you when you are not actually present; but demanding that a dry legal document that you will never ever see be amended (falsified) so as not to hurt your feelings (post-mortally) is taking this to a whole other level of arrogance.

Rainbowshit · 21/01/2023 00:50

Hagpie · 21/01/2023 00:46

Yeah it’s true people are taking their hate of trans people and doing what they can to justify it. I don’t sit watching the news trying to come to the conclusion that cis white women are dangerous but I have a life. The fact is a minority of those in the UK are cowards and will happily lap up trans people are xyz, singly mothers have rotted our society, people on boats are coming for our jobs etc because life is hard especially atm. It takes courage to stand up for what’s right and lots don’t have it in them right now or never had it.

You're right. It does take courage to stand up for what is right. More so in the trans debate than any other.

Personally I feel that children being sterilised and mutilated is very very wrong.

I feel that females being distressed by naked males in spaces that should be females only is very very wrong.

I feel that vulnerable women being raped in a female only prison is very very wrong.

And I will stand up for that and nothing you can do will stop me.

Perfectpeace · 21/01/2023 00:50

howmanybicycles · 21/01/2023 00:47

Sadly I'm going to have to give up on OP answering any questions and 'educating' us. I will just leave wit the thought that, if a person is a woman only if they 'feel like a woman', then moat former women are not women. So who do the males actually feel like? Other TW? How will you then protect the former women who are still disadvantaged despite no longer being a woman?

The OP didn’t come here to discuss, they came to goad women.

How does one ‘feel’ like a woman? And which particular woman or are we all the same?

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