To find media discussion about trans issues far overstated compared to the actual seriousness of the issue?

[BarmyBrunhilde]

Full disclosure, I happily accept most trans people I've met as their transitioned gender which I know puts me at odds with most people on MN. But as a feminist and a lefty, even if one views trans women as men which I don't, in terms of political priorities it ranks so list on my list of concerns. I assume that applies to most people too (trans people included!).

What someone has listed on their birth certificate has no impact on my life, and surely minimal impact on most women's lives? Imo we should be focusing on cost of living crisis, housing, properly funding women's services including rape crisis services, funding childcare, sorting out the health service and bloody schools! Gender recognition comes way below those for me (even though I'm broadly supportive with some checks in place).

I know gender criticals won't agree with me, and maybe some trans people who feel very strongly, but I do feel there's a silent majority of us who just aren't that fussed?

You are very patronising and lacking in empathy OP.

Are you a biological male?

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Eh so people should be able to falsify passports because they have something called gender?

Cis is a slur on here. We're just women.

"Single mothers have rotted society?" You really are a piece of work coming on a parenting forum spouting such bigoted nonsense.

Right side of history my arse.

Yeah it’s true people are taking their hate of trans people and doing what they can to justify it.

Do you also think that women hate all 'regular' men - because they don't want them to have access to single-sex female spaces either? In fact, for that matter, do you think that women also hate all 'regular' women - because they don't believe that they should have access to single-sex male spaces?

Sex matters petition www.mumsnet.com/Talk/petitions_noticeboard/4668425-sex-matters-petition

All I get from the last 13 pages is that men really hate women who won't give them what they want.

Cis is not a slur and I would ask you define it lmao.

I said the same newspapers putting out anti-trans stuff and THE SAME ONES chatting nonsense about single mothers reeeeeead. The rate you can stop bigoted nonsense is very interesting though.

The ones who stood and burned textbooks on sex and gender identity in 1940s Germany thought they were on the right side of history too.

Cis very much is a slur. I am not a subset of my own sex thank you.

Do you believe transwomen are women in every way?
That there should be no single sex spaces at all?
Prisons, refuges, everything?
Because this just seems like someone flailing and calling names because you have no arguments just feelings.
You may think you're brave for standing up for trans people but you're mostly just caping for men who want to have access to women.

I use stonewalls definition
It's a slur if you call someone cis ifbthry haven't said their cis.

LMAO 'wrong side of his history'. I believe the TRA position will horrify people in around 20 years. Much like pre universal suffrage does now.

Ha that's hilarious.
Which side are burning books now? I've only seen TRAs doing that.

We want to debate not keep people quiet by force. I'd prefer everyone to read the books written by TRAs to show how batshit it all is.
Sunlight everywhere.

Indeed. And if I'm sent to jail, what rationale is there for sending me, an agender person, to a women's jail rather than a men's?

Well, @BarmyBrunhilde I think you're living up to your name.

Anyone who can seriously write 'and think most women should be focusing on what really matters' and talk about 'gender criticals' is really giving themselves away.

Good luck playing your games on here.

Well since no one can define trans I can't define cis. You think cis women are women who are not male. That's a slur. Human's are a dimorphic species. We come in 2 sexes so there is no need for an identifier for women given that men can never be women.

You are not on the right side of history.

You hate women and don't give a fuck about children.

We will not give up.

I honestly find it astonishing that those who champion experimental treatment that sterilised children invoke the nazis and think they are the ones on " the right side of history "

Here you go:

www.gov.uk/government/publications/statement-of-reasons-related-to-the-use-of-section-35-of-the-scotland-act-1998/html-version

Enjoy your luxury beliefs. The tide has turned, we can just work round you now to secure women and girls' rights and children's safeguarding.

I know.

They obviously just 'identify' with being on the right side of history.

I agree with you OP.

*SantaCarlaCalifornia
Do you believe transwomen are women in every way?
That there should be no single sex spaces at all?
Prisons, refuges, everything?
Because this just seems like someone flailing and calling names because you have no arguments just feelings.
You may think you're brave for standing up for trans people but you're mostly just caping for men who want to have access to women.

Indeed. And if I'm sent to jail, what rationale is there for sending me, an agender person, to a women's jail rather than a men's?*

Your gender is irrelevant. There's no way they'll send someone of the female sex to a male prison.

@WalkthisWayUK Don’t want to leave you hanging, so here is my opinion on death certificates. I agree, there should indeed be a way to ensure that data is recorded correctly. A way to do that should be found that meets that requirement and also gives the dead human and the people left that love them the respect they deserve. Not everything needs to be black or white. Now, I’m off to sleep. Goodnight.

But it is black or white. Birth certificates record sex. Either it's accurate or it's not.

I'm female I don't want my death to record that I have a woman gender identity. It horrified me to think that anyone would think I am that old fashioned. How can you respect both my and TW beliefs? To do so you have to use woman as an identity statement when talking about TW and a biological statement when talking about me. Or you log me as no gender. Which will obscure the sex based nature of my vulnerabilities. Its naive to think you can respect TW desire to have the concept of woman detached from biology and my eed to have it be purely a biological statement. An actual respectful way forward would be to separate the concepts of woman and feminine. Men can consider themselves feminine if they want and fuck knows they they want that o n a death certificate but it can be added on for all I care.

So it is gender feels above material reality?

Yet no one has answered my question on how 'gender' is defined.

I pity future generations who will have no accurate data or medical information.

I'll ask again, (not expecting an answer).

What is gender? Whey should having one mean that a person can falsify passports and other documents giving them addition rights to those without a gender and meaning that we don't have accurate records upon which to build patterns and improve medicine and other issues important to society?

Honest question.
Could we allow people to change their birth certificates/ passports etc to say trans woman/transman?
Instead of recording people as the opposite sex at all. Which is a lie because, obviously nobody can change sex.
Could marriage vows not permit the use of transman/transwoman also?
Would that be a fair compromise?

Death certificates are not pretty. They record cause of death which is often upsetting to think about. They are a legal public record and should be accurate.

Meanwhile nobody will misgender you at your funeral and there is no law obliging you to have your deadname on your gravestone.