Not to like the Globe Theatre calling me a bitch?

[EmpressaurusWitchDoesntBurn]

OK, not to my face. But following the non-binary Joan of Arc play they’ve shared a ‘terfs stop being transphobic challenge’ referring to anyone who doesn’t believe in gender identity as a bitch.

It’s a shame. I’ve been to some amazing plays at the Globe. But they’ve made their position on feminists pretty clear, so I won’t be going back.

twitter.com/The_Globe/status/1577694873204973569?t=4hr_PKJE3MY0_9-1x3oFvQ&s=19

Joan of Arc was a woman. Why do you feel the need to play her as non binary? All for non binary, trans etc but seems bit far rewriting history.

You don't have to raise awareness. Everyone knows about non binary

Ive been lurking…though its a long thread so maybe I forgot i was on here

anyhoo….can I suggest that a new thread is started by the RUFS, it’s getting lost in this thread.

i knew I’d read about it I couldn’t remember where

This is such a stupid statement. I've never been shot or attacked by a vicious dog or hit by a speeding car. So these things obviously don't happen because they haven't happened to MEEEEEE.

Oh and fwiw I have been alone in my gym changing room with a trans-identifying male, who stayed in there for hours, followed me into the tiny toilet area, and I felt incredibly threatened, shaken and very, very unsafe.

Who'd have thought it? Your experience is not universal, the plural of anecdote is not data, there is a huge amount of actual evidence of harm including rape of children that you're blithely dismissing because "she did her make up better than me tee hee lol"

Ffs.

Yes Agree. Will do that in due course.
Will only discuss the thread. No more RUF stuff.

I think that if @Discovereads manages to make any headway towards a satisfactory solution for all sides, we should nominate her for Nobel Peace Prize! 😂

Good idea btw @CantHearMyselfThink

If you think their poetry is bad, wait until you see their “performance art”. It’s grim.

How did I miss your post @CantHearMyselfThink !
Thats really awesome news! I have copied over the comments from here and put in notes. I will edit a bit and yes go and start a RUF thread.

If any headway is made it will be because all of RUF is pulling together. Not me.

@Discovereads @CantHearMyselfThink If you set up a page there, I'm pretty useless with technology, so you'll need to send me a link to it (feel free to pm).

Moderation in all things? I'm moderate in my views of either side. I have repeatedly stated that I actively avoid this topic because it's seems so one-sided here and a lot of hatred is involved (hatred is usually as a result of fear).

If there is any appetite for change or conciliation, the threads on MN on this topic are not indicative of such. That said, I don't know what the backstory is, I don't about the arguments or the extent of threats of rape or murder.
I am aware that a couple of women have won cases allowing them to voice their opinion that only a woman is a woman (or whatever way it's phrased).
I am not willing to join in that extreme view. So my participation would be solely on the basis that both sides are heard.

@Discovereads @CantHearMyselfThink
As I said earlier in this thread (I think?), I have a male cousin who dresses up as Melissa (I laughed when he told me because, he's about 5'8 and 20 stone pmsl). I asked him why he did it and he said he just enjoys it! He has been attacked because of it. His parents (my aunt and uncle) are just accepting. It's just him! They're very accepting that he's never going to be the 'perfect son' and they're cool with that. I can ask him for his views and experiences if it would be helpful as he's quite a philosophical character.

I doubt his views are extreme in any way as he just dresses up in a skirt and high heels (bless him). I can't find the logic in it, but it makes him happy? Think of Shrek in a dress and high heels? That's what my cousin would look like! Don't tell him I said that! 😁

Are you saying that stating a woman is an adult human female is an extreme view @Passmethewhat ? In that case, what is your definition of woman that includes all women and TW but excludes all men and TM? If you can give a definition that is not circular and does not rely on sexist stereotypes you’ll be doing a lot better than anyone else on the TWAW side of this debate.

Are you saying that stating a woman is an adult human female is an extreme view
Yes.

Why? Because there are so many permutations of femininity.
Is an adult female a woman? Yes.
Is a transgender woman a woman? In my view, yes. They might have a womb but the more correct adjective would be to describe them as effeminate.

I can say that I'm a poet because this one time, at band camp, I wrote a poem.

I can say that I'm an artist because I one sold a painting.

Why do you wish to so narrowly define who and/or what a woman is?

Have you ever heard of the term effeminate?

Definition of effeminate (Entry 1 of 2)
1: having feminine qualities untypical of a man : not manly in appearance or manner
2: marked by an unbecoming delicacy or overrefinement
effeminate art
an effeminate civilization

That's from here www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/effeminate

effeminate
adjective
disapproving
UK
/ɪˈfem.ɪ.nət/ US
/əˈfem.ə.nət/
An effeminate man behaves or looks similar to a woman:
He's got a very effeminate manner/voice.

That's from here dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/effeminate

effeminate adjective
/ɪˈfɛmənət/

(disapproving)
(of a man or a boy) looking, behaving, or sounding like a woman or a girl

That's from here www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/american_english/effeminate

If it hurts someone to describe as someone other than who they feel themselves to be, are you the one who is being hurt or are you the one causing the hurt?

*to describe them

😁femininity, masculinity, or effeminacy doesn't determine your sex.

I come from a very 'macho' type of tribe of people. Homosexuals were persecuted. Women were persecuted. Children were persecuted.

Sexual organs? That's it? That's what it comes down to for you? It's as simple as that?

@Passmethewhat What term would you use for the people of biological XX (who for all human time have been known as woman/women)? We obviously need a term for them due to biology.

Why not use the words woman & female, and then you invent another term that links men who want to think they are women, with women who don't mind being linked in with those me, but not including women who don't want to be linked. Not resorting to stereotypes of course.

Why do we want to define what a woman is…. Hmmmm let me think….. because how can you fight for women’s rights if you can’t define what a woman is? That is the stupidest thing I’ve heard this year.

if you can’t define what a woman is, how do TW know they are women?

if a woman is just a feminine person, is a butch lesbian or a tomboy not a woman?
habe you told effeminate men they’re actually women? I’d pay to see that. I really would.
you seem very invested in conflating woman with femininity , the sexist bullshit men have been forcing on women for centuries. I thought this new gender ideology was supposed to smash gender norms, not reinforce them. .

Well for millions of years it’s what has kept the human race going. I mean, procreation takes one of each sex right? Two males cannot make a baby and neither can two females.
are you saying sex is determined by how masculine or feminine someone behaves? That’s actually hilarious.

Where I'm from, you were either a boy or a child.

I'm not God. I don't pretend to be. I don't pretend to shudder in fear at the sight of transwoman in the Ladies' toilets.

How many of you have in fact genuine, real fears of transwomen? If you genuinely fear them, why?

I just gave you the definitions of effeminate from the three most prominent English dictionaries.

But how did they know the difference? Was there like some clue that a child was not a boy or did they just assign the title boy by random
why are you so invested in giving away womens rights to single sex spaces? Why is it up to women to allow males in their spaces if they do not wish them to be there? Why does the feeling of the male trump those of the female? Is this going back to your upbringing where women and girls were not seen as people?

All those dictionaries define effeminate as relating to men and boys.