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Original poster

Part 2: Female swimmers beaten by transgender athlete stage podium protest at ‘unfair’ result (

619 replies

pombear · 19/03/2022 20:38

Hope you don't mind whytcvv just posting here as your thread reached the limit for posts

Posting your original OP here:- Ignore my previous thread-start as it didn't include important title"

whytcvv
When will the rules change as I completely agree this is unfair and I expect that you will all largely agree with me.

For anyone that doesn't agree, please explain your reasoning to help me better understand.

This reminds me of the weightlifting story from last year.

People that are born female and people who are born male should not be competing in these events together. Our physical bodies are not comparable.

Have as many genders as you can think of, but there are only two possible sexes that you can be born as and that is what eligibility in these competitions should be based on.

AIBU

Link to previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4508526-female-swimmers-beaten-by-transgender-athlete-stage-podium-protest-at-unfair-result

OP posts:
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23
SkiingIsHeaven · 20/03/2022 12:10

@exLtEveDallas

I’ve gone ‘out out’ tonight and as always, my extrovert DH ended up speaking to randoms in the pub. Turned out a chap he was speaking to was a senior rugby player, mildly famous (people asking him for selfies). Completely unprompted he started ranting about Lia Thomas… it was beautiful. This absolute hulk of a man (and his wife) both absolutely spitting tacks about unfairness, cheating, the end of womens sports and so on.

I’ve never met another Terf in the wild Grin and to hear him talk, the rest of his team feel exactly the same. Of course I had to ask him how he felt about Kelly Morgan… and he used a word that I can’t bring myself to type 😂

By the time we left there was an 8 person table all drunkenly raging about it, and for once it wasn’t my fault. Honestly, after being quite depressed about all this and how relentless it seems, tonight has given me hope.
(And I did point out that more people in the public eye need to speak out…I think he got me).

How ironic that men need to stick up for us for people to start to listen.
inventinglouise · 20/03/2022 12:10

@Ereshkigalangcleg

I want to know why so many women are complicit in this?

I don't mean the people who are scared to speak, I can completely understand that. I mean the ones that are actively pushing this, that shout and scream transphobe, that back up the worst of the TRAs, why do they do it and what do they get out of it?

All I can think of is the meme that I see on Twitter which basically says "If I shit on other women with you, then will you treat me like I have value?"

I think you have answered your question! There have always been women who sold other women out for the benefit of men. It's a patriarchal coping strategy to an extent. Ally yourself to the people with power.

"And women like hunting witches, too Doing your dirtiest work for you"
Ereshkigalangcleg · 20/03/2022 12:12

Ive no idea who said this but the reason we were put in a sub forum (its not hidden for goodness sake) is because there seem to be a number of posters who are unable to scroll past threads they dont want to read

And have the entitlement to think this forum must revolve around what they find interesting or relevant.

FWR is one of the highest trafficked areas of the site after the chat ones.

RachelGreeneGreep · 20/03/2022 12:18

@TheKeatingFive

You need to be U14 to compete as an U14 and saying "but I feel like I'm 13, not 16" wouldn't get him anywhere.

I don't understand why this doesn't apply to anything bar gender.

If I tried to say that I 'felt' African American/blind/a giraffe and that identity should be honoured by others, I'd be laughed out of the park.

Why is this different?

Exactly. I also wonder how anyone could take pride in such a 'victory' as this one. It's surely a bit like me racing against small children and 'winning' because my legs are longer and so forth. What a victory that would be. Not.
itsgettingweird · 20/03/2022 12:21

apple.news/A2SFt6aOTTYytpuGcGfa62w

For anyone who's not seen this. TheLBC interview with Sharon Davies is really good, very measured and factual.

ExMachinaDeus · 20/03/2022 12:36

Is it true that he's still got a penis and is allowed in the girls changing rooms with them?

Apparently, yes.

I also heard that Thomas walked around the pool (so public) topless - as a 'woman' although I don't know if that is true or just an escalation of the changing room travesty.

Any woman who walked around topless in public would be sanctioned, punished, hurried away. Imagine doing it at your local pool?

TheKeatingFive · 20/03/2022 12:38

I also wonder how anyone could take pride in such a 'victory' as this one.

Yes. Lia comes across as a somewhat objectionable personality overall though.

Squidlette · 20/03/2022 12:46

I'm in a woman's running group online. It seems to attract a few transwomen. One seems to come on just to engage women in discussion about running clothes and to show pictures of themselves. It's a largely American site, so lots of positive affirmation about how amazing they look. Women do not get the same comments.

There is also a transwoman who uses a wheelchair and starts lots of posts about how trans athletes should be entitled to compete in the same races. Usually accompanied by lots of agreements and frenzied attacks on any woman who dares disagree.

Personally, I find the idea of someone in a woman's running group who is neither a woman or a runner quite odd.

Finallylostit · 20/03/2022 12:48

To add insult to injury - having won one race to prove a point - then fakes losing in a couple more.
Seriously as a genetically XX v big female this just ices the cake on insults to all women competing in sport.

turbonerd · 20/03/2022 12:49

@EmbarrassingHadrosaurus
Thank you.

My jaw has hit the floor so many times this week I think I shall knit a chin-holder and tie the Bow on the top of my head.

TeenPlusCat · 20/03/2022 12:53

I think it will be interesting as and when LT comes up against another TW swimmer.
At the moment reports seem to say that LT is 'costing' and not winning by as much margin as they are able to.
But if 2 TW were racing each other, presumably they would either have to fix the race between them, or both try hard which would increase their winning margin. That would show more light on how TW are biologically male with all the advantage that brings.

aylis · 20/03/2022 12:55

How is it that people see the podium picture and think it tells a story about a lack of trans acceptance? How are women so obviously nothing to so many people and that is ok? What do those people actually want from women?

itsgettingweird · 20/03/2022 13:30

@aylis

How is it that people see the podium picture and think it tells a story about a lack of trans acceptance? How are women so obviously nothing to so many people and that is ok? What do those people actually want from women?
For us to accept men as woman so they can beat us. Because they know it's not possible for trans men to do the same to males.
Ereshkigalangcleg · 20/03/2022 13:33

I'm in a woman's running group online. It seems to attract a few transwomen. One seems to come on just to engage women in discussion about running clothes and to show pictures of themselves. It's a largely American site, so lots of positive affirmation about how amazing they look. Women do not get the same comments.

This does not surprise me as it is a story repeated in thousands of "women's" groups.

georgarina · 20/03/2022 13:44

@TeenPlusCat

I think it will be interesting as and when LT comes up against another TW swimmer. At the moment reports seem to say that LT is 'costing' and not winning by as much margin as they are able to. But if 2 TW were racing each other, presumably they would either have to fix the race between them, or both try hard which would increase their winning margin. That would show more light on how TW are biologically male with all the advantage that brings.
Already happened in competitive HS track. Two trans athletes competing with girls and consistently taking 1st and 2nd place by a landslide. A documentary was made about one of them, called Changing the Game. A quote from a sports director said something like "It's time to change the way we choose which bodies to celebrate."
PastMyBestBeforeDate · 20/03/2022 13:51

No matter what drugs Thomas takes, they will always have male feet. I have a photo from a holiday where DH and I went scuba diving. My flippers are only a little bit longer than DH's feet. His feet are much wider than my feet. One kick from him would shift far more water than one from me.

Moppincraxy · 20/03/2022 13:51

I'm pleased but surprised that mumsnet is allowing this thread to stay in AIBU and not immediately moving it into the FWR section as has happened with so many other similar threads. These issues are not just for hardline feminists but for all women (and men). Everyone should be aware of these issues and it should not be the case that any mention of trans gets moved out of the mainstream threads. Well done mumsnet for letting this one stay. I hope it sets a precedent for more tolerance of gender critical views, particularly considering that 99% of votes are on the GC side even on the mainstream board.

Nnique · 20/03/2022 13:54

The previous thread yo-yoed back and forth a few times but it is entirely right that this thread stay here. Women have a right to discuss issues that affect all our daughters, sisters, mothers, friends and girls/women everywhere.

Finallylostit · 20/03/2022 14:05

I am not a feminist but as a female who has often been mistaken for a male and then bee laughed at for not being as strong or fast as a man - the whole sectrum of insults has now expanded.

I am no longer mistaken for a man which to be fair from behind was quite understandable and always apologised to once aware- I am now mistaken as trans.
I am simply a genetically XX woman

georgarina · 20/03/2022 14:10

@Finallylostit just curious and no need to answer :) but what does it mean not to be a feminist? I'm always interested when people say this

ExMachinaDeus · 20/03/2022 15:17

A quote from a sports director said something like "It's time to change the way we choose which bodies to celebrate."

Yeah. I mean, those bloody women & girls - getting in everywhere and taking up time and resources meant for men. We should never have taught women to read & write.

Campervan69 · 20/03/2022 15:55

Poll clearly shows YANBU

Helleofabore · 20/03/2022 16:19

How is it that people see the podium picture and think it tells a story about a lack of trans acceptance?

It is not a lack of 'trans acceptance' though. It is a lack of male competition in female sport.

And it was not just a podium picture. It was the finish of the 200y race where all the women ran in for a group hug and Thomas was not invited and walked away. It was the number of young women who are now giving interviews.

The purity spiralling has to stop.

Using this as an example of lack of 'trans acceptance' is not helpful because it continues to progress the denial that there are conflicts in the rights that some trans people insist on having. I say 'some' because there are quite a large number and growing voices of transitioned males saying clearly that it is wrong. That they do not support this as the science is clear and this is not right.

If the only way these young women had to express their anger at this forced inclusion was to have their photo taken as a group away from Thomas or to have a huge group hug where women from across the pool joined in and Thomas was not invited, it is their way to getting the message across.

Imagine if you (general you) were a young woman at university and you discovered that to continue to be part of that team, you had to remain silent about the farce that is being called 'fairness'. And that if you complained about seeing a penis in the change rooms, you were offered conciliatory mental health support for dealing with not winning and your limited prospects.

How fucking angry would you (general you,) be?

DrSbaitso · 20/03/2022 16:47

Aquote from a sports director said something like "It's time to change the way we choose which bodies to celebrate."

If Hugh Hefner were still alive, does anyone think that he, or indeed those who continue his legacy of exploitation, abuse, sexism and downright fucking creepiness, would have any trouble identifying which bodies they wanted to "celebrate"?

DrSbaitso · 20/03/2022 16:51

@ExMachinaDeus

A quote from a sports director said something like "It's time to change the way we choose which bodies to celebrate."

Yeah. I mean, those bloody women & girls - getting in everywhere and taking up time and resources meant for men. We should never have taught women to read & write.

Yeah, well, we did. So the next best thing now is to enforce Newspeak upon them.