You just cannot talk about Palestine on this forum

[Faffandahalf]

Why has the last thread been taken down with a ‘goady op’ message?
What’s so goady about asking why we can’t criticise the actions of Israel?
Don’t even give a shit this is a TAAT and will get zapped.

Palestine exists. Ethnic cleansing is happening. And every single thread gets taken down.

Only one person on that thread shouted anti semitism. Every one else was mostly in agreement about what is happening and it still gets zapped.

I’ll once again direct people to friends of al Aqsa on Instagram and Twitter in the hopes people see this and would like some real information.

Israel is an occupying oppressor committing genocide and the Palestinians are an oppressed people. There is no comparison in the force power and might of these two groups esp when one has the backing and funding of the US.

Seriously pissed at MN for refusing to allow truths to be told about the situation

I have given up posting on this topic as it is so incendiary (literally). I am just coming back to say the following:

• I am sick of it all. I am sick of the rage and whataboutery.

I am sick of claims of what Holy Books might have 'promised' centuries ago - totally irrelevant in 2021.

I am sick of Palestinian terrorists firing rockets into Israel and vowing 'death to Israel'. I am sick of Hamas.

I am sick of Jewish terrorists celebrating as mosques burn and throwing Palestinian people out of their homes 'because the Bible says we can'. I am sick of the IDF. RIP Rachel Corrie, Tom Hurndall.

I am sick of the fact that not a single world leader has the foresight or the will to really tackle this intractable, decades old crisis. What was that mumbling crap from Biden last night?

There needs to be leadership - true, sincere, visionary leadership from people with integrity . That is all we can pray for. I pity all Israelis and Palestinians and I fervently wish that some kind of peace can be achieved. And that is all I have to say.

@piddocktrumperiness

So I've learnt to practise always putting Govt after the word Israeli/Israel because it is highly sensitive and I just want talk policy and politics- not religion or people.

@dreamingbohemian- What is their rationale for claiming illegal settlements and eviction of families after living in a place for over 70 yrs is ok? What is their rationale for not treating citizens equally and for supporting discrimination?

Scrap that- We're talking America and land grabs, and discrimination. Oh boy.

If you look at those right-wing pro-Israel outfits, they tend to also be explicitly Islamophobic and rabid anti-terrorism ranters. So the support of Israel is tied into the idea that it's this lone beacon in a sea of crazy terrorists that want to destroy the US.

Unfortunately 9/11, coming on the heels of the Second Intifada, allowed people like this to convince a lot of Americans that the Palestinians are all terrorists too and so the US should support Israel with whatever it does. Fox News promotes this idea big time. This is actually why it's so hard to shift US Government policy on Israel.

That's interesting @dreamingbohemian

You mean the sea of crazy that the US, UK and others help create? What about the total nut job that is Saudi Arabia? Do they criticise them?

@piddocktrumperiness Oh no, they love Saudi Arabia. And of course the US had nothing to do with making things crazy in the first place.

Honestly, you can't listen to these sort of right-wing narratives for more than 2 minutes without screaming. Unfortunately they have become very widespread in the last 20 years. There was much more sympathy for the Palestinians in the late 80s and 90s, in the US.

Yes, there seems to be a lot of support for Israel in the US because in their minds Palestinian = terrorist/potential threat to them due to the reporting angles in the MSM.

“Israelis rule”

“They’re not humans, they’re Muslims”

At least this thread proves that yes, you can talk about Palestine on here and for the most part in a fairly civilised way.

Steps towards how Israel should 'fight the terrorists hiding within civilian populations?

The key thing is to sit down and understand why there are terrorists in the first place. Think why some civilians support them. Stop imagining the Israeli Government is guided by the hand of God and is therefore 'righteous'. Recognise that much of the Israeli Government behaviour is terrorising! Recognise that there is always negotiations with terrorists - always in the end a peace treaty will be drawn up and concessions made - look at the settlements after WW2 and WW1 - which is why it's so unforgivable that mankind things it's right to shed so much blood before getting to the peace table.

Then as a previous poster said:

Maybe I’ll start thinking once you admit that Israel has stolen, and continues to steal, land from the Palestinians. And also once Israel hands back land that it stole in 1967 as required by UN resolution 242

Once there is an admission of guilt, then perhaps we can look at how we move forward. And to be clear, the answer will not be the destruction of Israel; the land is home to many Israelis and removing them from land they have lived on, regardless of whether it belong to Israel in first instance, is wrong.

But Israel needs to stop playing the innocent victim card before any progress can be made

It's understandable to blame uk gov at the time - but what would you do with 250,000 homeless and stateless Jews from the camps after WW2 - there's discussion of this previously on the thread

For the love of god,
What does Israel policy in expelling people from their homes in sheikh jarrah have anything to do with Hamas?

Why are civilians and elderly men and women being made homeless by a government ?

Why are the racist soldiers protecting the theives stealing the houses of the people in sheikh jarrah? And this has been happening to many families, for decades.

That is NOTHiNG to do with foriegn policy.

Why would condemning these settlements need to be conditional and so complicated ?!

Sheikh Jarrah is in the West Bank. It is not under Hamas and Hamas leadership. In fact most of them oppose Hamas and even had a massive issue with them.

Bringing the Hamas argument is a convenient way to absolve any responsibility from the Israeli government.

These acts of aggression are deliberate and are not of someone wanting peace.. theyre of someone who want to dominate.. and then want to run away to their allies and pretend to be the victim.

The Hamas story is manipulative. It’s a seperate issue.

Any Israeli, Jew, Muslim, Christian, angel, Buddhist that dismisses the fact that my home would be stolen from me in the name of their god.. I will hate them.

It’s human nature to hate someone who stole your life’s work.

It’s very very simple.

What’s stealing people’s homes got to do with the politics ?

Please for the love of god help me understand. Because I don’t.

If my own brother kicked me and my kids out of my home and claimed thst god told him he is more entitled to it, then I WILL hate him.

And if my own mother tried to shush me whenever I tried to protest for my rights and bring up all the other dynamics of the family as an excuse for his behaviour, I will hate that very much.

It’s not personal.

What’s stealing the lands of sheikh jarrah got to do with Hamas? Answer me someone !

I don’t like or agree with the current Israeli government at all. My issue is those sitting safe in the UK who can only bring an “Israel = evil, Palestinians = innocent victims” rhetoric. It’s generally been indoctrinated into us from childhood through schools, universities, politicians etc

Not sure where you were educated. The National Curriculum followed does not cover the Middle East at all in most schools. Most schoolchildren in mainland Britain are not even aware of the background to the Troubles in NI. I did a modern History Degree in the UK and did not even study the Middle East. We hear very little at all, shamefully, about the Middle East in any news bulletin unless us about another Saudi Government atrocity to their own citizens. We are only discussing it now because the region is close to civil war.

Many people however are educated enough, and well travelled enough and fair minded enough to recognise when injustice is happening to citizens in countries across the globe, and to be utterly frustrated their government doesn't stick their head above to parapet to call it out. Most of us are sick to death of the USA's one sided interference in the region - Trumps last act about Jerusalem was baiting behaviour designed to incite.

The Israeli Governments' hands are unclean and acting like one giant prodding finger at a demoralised and abused people who have few enough people in power to stand up to them. It's like a David and Goliath story - ironically David is Palestinian now.

What’s stealing the lands of sheikh jarrah got to do with Hamas? Answer me someone!

It has nothing to do with Hamas.

‘ What’s stealing the lands of sheikh jarrah got to do with Hamas? Answer me someone!’

Well, nothing obvs. It’s yet another smokescreen.

The Hamas attacks have been provoked. So the Israeli government have literally bullied and stoked the fires to this point. Then they get to hurl their military might at a tiny opponent while justifying it all as self defence.
The world isn’t blind though - hence the outcry from everywhere excepting Israel itself and some in the USA.

BBC News

At least 83 Palestinians and seven people in Israel have been killed since fighting began on Monday

That toll is only going to go up.awful.

If it wasn't for Israel's Iron Dome defences, the civilian death toll in Israel would be huge.

Hamas and Islamic Jihad terrorists have fired an incredible number of rockets, indiscriminately, into Israel but luckily around 90% are shot down by Iron Dome before they can kill.

The news tonight is depressing, gangs of youths, Israelis too, marching around mixed areas looking for someone to fight, and the lovely Israeli the BBC interviewed who just wants Gaza burnt to the ground and destroyed forever.

@SofiaMichelle unlucky for Palestine though...

If it wasn't for Israel's Iron Dome defences, the civilian death toll in Israel would be huge

But the Israeli death toll isn't huge is it. (thankfully)

However, if it wasn't for the actions of Israel in starting this, there would be far fewer deaths, if any at all.

The news tonight is depressing, gangs of youths, Israelis too, marching around mixed areas looking for someone to fight, and the lovely Israeli the BBC interviewed who just wants Gaza burnt to the ground and destroyed forever

Yes, and this is what happens when the rule of law is broken by government - the young people feed off it.

I think Israel knows about its Iron Dome defenses, which is why it doesn’t mind targetting places that will give severe number of casualties.. and provoke the most response.

And that’s why they don’t give a damn that they would provoke worshippers, in the second holy site for a world Muslim population of 1 billion, on their most blessed month..

And that’s why they don’t mind, breaking international law, and daring to impose fake interpretation of scripture on people of another faith citing it as a reason why they should be kicked out of their homes on sheikh jarrah, and harassing a peaceful protest undermining the rights of their Neigbours...

That’s why... because they have an iron dome defence.

I’m glad they have an iron dome defense, for the children, for the innocent civilians, for the vulnerable, for the country...

Because Israelis are humans, and should have their human rights protected. War crimes are not ok.

Building settlements on other people’s lands are not ok.

Exploding buildings with children are not ok.

Objective morality is needed here.. and EVERYONE should uphold it, from both sides. For the conflict to not keep producing future trauma, we need to minimise its impact on human rights!

So sorry for all of the victims in this but can't help wondering why in the name of God, whenever there is conflict in the world there is always the USA involved in some way.

@StoneofDestiny

The news tonight is depressing, gangs of youths, Israelis too, marching around mixed areas looking for someone to fight, and the lovely Israeli the BBC interviewed who just wants Gaza burnt to the ground and destroyed forever

Yes, and this is what happens when the rule of law is broken by government - the young people feed off it.

Yep the example is set from the top. Channel 4 news reporting possible ground force invasion by Israel to happen.

Don’t even want to imagine how that would pan out.

‘If it wasn't for Israel's Iron Dome defences, the civilian death toll in Israel would be huge’

It it’s not because they have it, so what’s your point? Everyone knows they have it. Which is good. And makes the shear volume of rockets being fired at Israel more symbolic than anything else. And yet Israel is kicking the crap out of one of the most deprived countries on earth, refusing to talk with anyone brokering a ceasefire and preparing for a ground invasion.

*Louis Fishman, an associate professor at Brooklyn College, wrote in Haaretz that Netanyahu’s “greatest magic trick” had been to blind Israeli Jews to their state’s oppression of the Palestinians. “But even the most carefully constructed house of cards eventually starts tumbling down, and that exactly is what is happening now … Impregnable Netanyahuism, the work of a master illusionist, is shattering".

So sorry for all of the victims in this but can't help wondering why in the name of God, whenever there is conflict in the world there is always the USA involved in some way

Another country that keeps quoting 'Godly quotes whether they are bombing the shit out of others, or supporting those who do that. Their blind God bless America* translates as God has blessed America in their mind.