You just cannot talk about Palestine on this forum

[Faffandahalf]

Why has the last thread been taken down with a ‘goady op’ message?
What’s so goady about asking why we can’t criticise the actions of Israel?
Don’t even give a shit this is a TAAT and will get zapped.

Palestine exists. Ethnic cleansing is happening. And every single thread gets taken down.

Only one person on that thread shouted anti semitism. Every one else was mostly in agreement about what is happening and it still gets zapped.

I’ll once again direct people to friends of al Aqsa on Instagram and Twitter in the hopes people see this and would like some real information.

Israel is an occupying oppressor committing genocide and the Palestinians are an oppressed people. There is no comparison in the force power and might of these two groups esp when one has the backing and funding of the US.

Seriously pissed at MN for refusing to allow truths to be told about the situation

Human Rights Watch
During armed hostilities over the last decade plus, Human Rights Watch has documented the regular use of excessive and vastly disproportionate force by Israeli authorities, at times deliberately targeting civilians or civilian infrastructure.

For years, this cycle of escalation has played on loop, at varying degrees of intensity. Even if the immediate crisis subsides, the vicious cycle will continue so long as impunity for serious abuses remains the norm and the international community fails to take the sort of measures to ensure accountability that a situation of this gravity warrants.

@Anordinarymum

So sorry for all of the victims in this but can't help wondering why in the name of God, whenever there is conflict in the world there is always the USA involved in some way.

And England not too far behind.

And England not too far behind

You mean the UK.

Yes, my bad.

@StoneofDestiny

So sorry for all of the victims in this but can't help wondering why in the name of God, whenever there is conflict in the world there is always the USA involved in some way

Another country that keeps quoting 'Godly quotes whether they are bombing the shit out of others, or supporting those who do that. Their blind God bless America* translates as God has blessed America in their mind.

Not sure a country with the anthem God Save the Queen can judge much!

The UK has been right beside the US, invading Iraq and Afghanistan, regime change in Libya, selling arms to Saudi.
Palestine and Iraq were former British mandates that they managed to completely fuck up before leaving.

The US is far more to blame for supporting Israel militarily but let's not pretend the UK isn't deeply involved as well.

Disclose.tv is reporting 9000 Israeli army reserves have been called up whilst the Pentagon has withdrawn 120 US military and civilians from Israel.

[quote shhplease]@SofiaMichelle unlucky for Palestine though...[/quote]
What do you mean?

I wish the Palestinians also had an iron dome and also any dome to stop the Israeli army marching in mosques and people's homes but unlucky for them (lucky for Israel) they don't!

Can’t help but think the US is withdrawing to claim plausible deniability for something horrific that’s about to happen. I really hope not.

Not sure a country with the anthem God Save the Queen can judge much!

Fortunately that not my countries anthem.

*Maybe I’ll start thinking once you admit that Israel has stolen, and continues to steal, land from the Palestinians. And also once Israel hands back land that it stole in 1967 as required by UN resolution 242.

Once there is an admission of guilt, then perhaps we can look at how we move forward. And to be clear, the answer will not be the destruction of Israel; the land is home to many Israelis and removing them from land they have lived on, regardless of whether it belong to Israel in first instance, is wrong.*

The Palestinians take this stance - and all these years of holding, holding out (feeling they have the moral high ground) has gotten then nowhere. They are in an awful position but made bad choice after bad choice hoping they would oust the Israelis and take it all - many would still want that if they had the capability. People need to stop infantilising and they need to accept responsibility. This is not a get out card for Israels bad decisions

Human Rights Watch says that while Israel has legitimate security concerns, those concerns do not justify its actions in denying Palestinian building permits in many areas, revoking Palestinian residency rights and expropriating privately owned Palestinian land. It says other Israeli policies "use security as a pretext to advance demographic objectives" of prioritizing Israeli Jews over Palestinians, most severely in the West Bank and Gaza

The report says the U.S. has "largely failed" to hold Israel to account for human rights violations against Palestinians. European nations and other countries, it says, have overprioritized a long-stalled peace process to end Israel's military occupation of Palestinian territory and create a Palestinian state

"This approach, which overlooks the deeply entrenched nature of Israeli discrimination and repression of Palestinians there, minimizes serious human rights abuses by treating them as temporary symptoms of the occupation that the 'peace process' will soon cure," the report says

"The international community has for too long explained away and turned a blind eye to the increasingly transparent reality on the ground," the report concludes. "Every day a person is born in Gaza into an open-air prison, in the West Bank without civil rights, in Israel with an inferior status by law, and in neighboring countries effectively condemned to lifelong refugee status, like their parents and grandparents before them, solely because they are Palestinian and not Jewish"

@StoneofDestiny

*Not sure where you were educated. The National Curriculum followed does not cover the Middle East at all in most schools. Most schoolchildren in mainland Britain are not even aware of the background to the Troubles in NI. I did a modern History Degree in the UK and did not even study the Middle East. We hear very little at all, shamefully, about the Middle East in any news bulletin unless us about another Saudi Government atrocity to their own citizens. We are only discussing it now because the region is close to civil war.

Many people however are educated enough, and well travelled enough and fair minded enough to recognise when injustice is happening to citizens in countries across the globe, and to be utterly frustrated their government doesn't stick their head above to parapet to call it out. Most of us are sick to death of the USA's one sided interference in the region - Trumps last act about Jerusalem was baiting behaviour designed to incite.

The Israeli Governments' hands are unclean and acting like one giant prodding finger at a demoralised and abused people who have few enough people in power to stand up to them. It's like a David and Goliath story - ironically David is Palestinian now*

Where i grew up the general automatic feeling is support for Palestinians - backed by local politicians, media and academics/student bodies in colleges/universities.

And both sides have blood on their hands - one side has the upper hand though - just as the UK used it’s superior technology, weapons, soldiers in the wars and operations it waged. I assume those totally condemning Israel as the only wrong doer here are totally understanding of terrorists like the IRA and jihadis who have no other recourse but to bomb and use stabbing sprees against the UK as Goliath, as the oppressor

In NI studies both the Arab Israeli conflict and The Troubles, they are very similar. Though one has gone on much longer than the other ( well to date anyway...)

I assume those totally condemning Israel as the only wrong doer here are totally understanding of terrorists like the IRA

Well I do understand how the IRA evolved having studied Irish/British history. Understanding is not to be equated to sympathising, but understanding is critical to resolving issues.
(I am familiar how the 'original' IRA has evolved into its current manifestation)

Governments can removed the perceived 'need' for so called terrorist groups to exist by removing the injustices they claim to be fighting against.

Just another couple of thoughts - I wonder if the citizens of North Korea rose up against their government would we call them terrorists or freedom fighters - and how would history portray them?

Should the people of North Korea rise up against their government?

"Israel doesn't negotiate with terrorists". Israel was built on terrorism. Deir Yassin, Sabra and Shatilla, Jenin to mention a few.
That evil bastard Ariel Sharon is a national hero just as Bin Laden is to the Taliban.
As I said nothing will change. It's white colonial settler state based on genocide of the native population and most White Europeans will justify it because brown people equals terrorists so liquidation is justified.

Israel stood with Apartheid South Africa and helped them build nuclear weapons.
The Tory party wanted Nelson Mandela to hang. He was a 'terrorist' just as the Palestinian people are now if they object to their own obliteration. Nothing will change because White Europeans will never face up to their colonial history.

Records of what the British did abroad were deliberately destroyed because it was too horrific for the wider public to know about

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/nov/29/revealed-bonfire-papers-empire

Now with the internet we see it happening in real time and it slips past the censorship you get from mainstream media.

Palestinians are finally being allowed a voice and you can see they are normal human beings just like us, not swivel eyed terrorists that we are constantly told they are.

But it doesn't matter. Because White Europeans mass murdered other White Europeans in the Holocaust.
It wasn't Palestinians that did that. It was White Europeans and now their guilt has to be assuaged with brown people's lives.

IKEA Sucks - by that logic the people that rebelled in the Warsaw Uprising were terrorists.

There is no 'both sides' here.

White Europeans will justify it because brown people equals terrorists

Israeli Jews are ‘brown people’ too. So that’s not correct.

regardless of whether it belong to Israel in first instance, is wrong.

According to the Old Testament the Jews were there first. So it comes down to who’s religion is right? This isn’t an argument that can ever be won.

@IconUcon

Israel has the highest vaccination rates in the world. Only in March did they decide that they should perhaps think about vaccinating Palestinians - the Palestinians who come into Israel to work. That’s all you need to know to understand how the Israeli state feels about the Palestinians.

So Israel should go into Gaza and vaccinate its population? Not sure how that one would go down.

Israeli Palestinians and Palestinians in Jerusalem are all entitled to be vaccinated as they are covered by the Israeli health system through national insurance. They have been equally vaccinated.

Palestinians in the Palestinian Authority, with their own Ministry of Health responsible for purchasing the vaccines, and their own health coverage will be vaccinated under their own system. This was all set up under the Oslo accords (ideally as the roadmap to having their own state). Palestinains would probably refuse vaccines administered by Israel as undermining their sovereignty and there would probably be huge suspicion about it.

@Faffandahalf

Why has the last thread been taken down with a ‘goady op’ message? What’s so goady about asking why we can’t criticise the actions of Israel? Don’t even give a shit this is a TAAT and will get zapped.

Palestine exists. Ethnic cleansing is happening. And every single thread gets taken down.

Only one person on that thread shouted anti semitism. Every one else was mostly in agreement about what is happening and it still gets zapped.

I’ll once again direct people to friends of al Aqsa on Instagram and Twitter in the hopes people see this and would like some real information.

Israel is an occupying oppressor committing genocide and the Palestinians are an oppressed people. There is no comparison in the force power and might of these two groups esp when one has the backing and funding of the US.

Seriously pissed at MN for refusing to allow truths to be told about the situation

Probably because the word "genocide" is completely inappropriate and smacks of an ulterior agenda. Actually it smacks of anti-semitism, this need to use holocaust terminology to describe a conflict that, while ugly, is nowhere near that kind of level (thankfully). It's funny that it seems that only what happens in Israel/Palestine is described with holocaust references and terminology. I rarely hear it anywhere else.

Of course, there are human rights abuses and there is plenty you could critcize Israel for. Indeed, there is a power imbalance and an occupation. But there is not genocide. And if you think there is, then you are clearly not interested in the facts.

Sending people to a very biased website such as 'friends of al aqsa' demonstrates you're not really interested in objectively understanding both sides in this conflict. I could direct people to a site like 'Standwithus.com' for "real" information but these are not websites interested in hearing both sides - and there is an Israeli side to this, some you may not agree with but it's important to understand nonetheless.

@DeepThinkingGirl

For the love of god, What does Israel policy in expelling people from their homes in sheikh jarrah have anything to do with Hamas?

Why are civilians and elderly men and women being made homeless by a government ?

Why are the racist soldiers protecting the theives stealing the houses of the people in sheikh jarrah? And this has been happening to many families, for decades.

That is NOTHiNG to do with foriegn policy.

Why would condemning these settlements need to be conditional and so complicated ?!

Sheikh Jarrah is in the West Bank. It is not under Hamas and Hamas leadership. In fact most of them oppose Hamas and even had a massive issue with them.

Bringing the Hamas argument is a convenient way to absolve any responsibility from the Israeli government.

These acts of aggression are deliberate and are not of someone wanting peace.. theyre of someone who want to dominate.. and then want to run away to their allies and pretend to be the victim.

The Hamas story is manipulative. It’s a seperate issue.

Any Israeli, Jew, Muslim, Christian, angel, Buddhist that dismisses the fact that my home would be stolen from me in the name of their god.. I will hate them.

It’s human nature to hate someone who stole your life’s work.

It’s very very simple.

What’s stealing people’s homes got to do with the politics ?

Please for the love of god help me understand. Because I don’t.

If my own brother kicked me and my kids out of my home and claimed thst god told him he is more entitled to it, then I WILL hate him.

And if my own mother tried to shush me whenever I tried to protest for my rights and bring up all the other dynamics of the family as an excuse for his behaviour, I will hate that very much.

It’s not personal.

What’s stealing the lands of sheikh jarrah got to do with Hamas? Answer me someone !

You may need to ask Hamas this question as they are the ones firing thousands of rockets into Israel, intentionally aimed at civilian populations, supposedly in response to Sheikh Jarrah.

@Oyvavoy. I agree.

Genocide? @Faffandahalf, Palestinian is currently bombarding Israel with rockets.

The Middle East is fucked, and has been since WW2.

I hate territorial arguments, I hate them even more when religion is involved.

If it was up to me, everyone would get a kick up the arse and sent off the pitch.

Noam Chomsky

All I know is we need to stay out of it.

‘ All I know is we need to stay out of it.’

Israel is descending into civil war, Gaza is being bombarded, the conflict threatens the whole stability of the Middle East, Israel has nuclear weapons and WMDs, Palestinian civilians are being killed indiscriminately -
No, we should not stay out of it, nor should the UN or Israel’s neighbours.