Page 29 | AIBU to think women should not be banned from Social media for asking the question

Angryresister · 2021-01-27T09:13:48+00:00

Many women have been suspended from sm for asking the question: “Do you believe that male sexed people should be allowed access to changing rooms and showers for female sexed people and teenagers?” Seems like a perfectly reasonable question which we should be allowed to ask

OvaHere · 27/01/2021 17:12

@whataloadoftoshasusual

If you think that women aren’t being silenced - think again. This is happening it’s insidious and it’s real. We are not even being allowed to debate.

Wow! That's insane.

merrymouse · 27/01/2021 17:13

HOLYYYYY SHIT! Is it 90%? I'm shocked. I can't actually put into words how shocked I am. This is why debates shouldn't be shut down.

It’s not that surprising when you think about the complications involved and loss of sexual function.

There are limits to what surgery can do.

Winesalot · 27/01/2021 17:13

There is a concept in safeguarding known as the Swiss Cheese analogy.

The idea being that good safeguarding is achieved via many different layers. Once you start to remove some of those layers then holes start to appear.

This is vitally important to remember .

ArabellaScott · 27/01/2021 17:14

ListeningQuietly

Once one realises that over 90% of Transwomen
choose to keep their penis and testicles

The whole inclusive argument rather falls apart.

HOLYYYYY SHIT! Is it 90%? I'm shocked. I can't actually put into words how shocked I am. This is why debates shouldn't be shut down.*

Bear in mind that 'cross dressers' are explicitly included in the category of 'transwomen' and/or 'transgender' people. Both under Stonewall's 'umbrella' and in recent Scottish legislation. I haven't seen a definition of 'cross dresser', fwiw, but that is where we are at.

RedDogsBeg · 27/01/2021 17:14

I don’t believe that an individual who identifies as a woman would go through the hell of not fitting in anywhere, confusion, abuse physical and verbal, hormone therapy and potentially surgery just to rape someone in a toilet.

Well it certainly was the case for Katie Dolatowski whose two female child victims have to live with their fear and trauma for the rest of their lives, but who cares about them? Who cares that when KD is released from prison they will once again have free and unfettered access to potential victims because people like you chant the TW are women mantra.

Does your description fit Phillip/Pippa Bunce who dresses in feminine clothing a couple of days a week and won an award for Business Woman of the Year? On the days Phillip is Pippa you'll be happy and welcoming of them into the female toilets, why not on the days Phillip is Phillip, what's the difference?

Impatiens · 27/01/2021 17:15

I really don’t, I’ve taken on board other points of view from posters who have framed it politely and as counterpoints...

Have you? Ppl have repeatedly asked you to clarify your points but you won't. You've stated you believe transwomen are women and therefore belong in Women's spaces - where can any discussion go from there? It's like an atheist trying to argue with someone who believes in God.

DeaconBoo · 27/01/2021 17:15

I don’t believe that an individual who identifies as a woman would go through the hell of not fitting in anywhere, confusion, abuse physical and verbal, hormone therapy and potentially surgery just to rape someone in a toilet

Fembot I say this not to be rude or anything but just in case you post this sort of thing on twitter or anywhere else - it's generally considered quite transphobic to assume that transwomen have some requirement to have hormone therapy or surgery etc. You'll get told off for gatekeeping who's "really" trans like this.

It might be that you think you can tell the difference between a trans woman and a man because they have somehow physically altered themselves (I don't know, because you won't answer). This isn't the case, particularly with self-id. I agree that trying to police anyone's appearance (including how feminine or masculine they look) is not a good thing, so people should be allowed to dress or express themselves how they like - male or female, culturally masculine or feminine or whatever.

Quaagars · 27/01/2021 17:17

This is happening it’s insidious and it’s real. We are not even being allowed to debate

29 pages since this morning and nobody's being allowed to discuss.
Er......

Wow! That's insane.

You sound like you're brand new to these threads with that comment, and you didn't know that before, but you're not, you're a FWR regular?
So I'd have thought you'd know that was what some think

colouringindoors · 27/01/2021 17:18

@mumsnet disappointed this was moved. There are plenty of threads in Chat and AIBU that strictly speaking could be in a topic thread eg Coronavirus, Relationships, Teenagers... but aren't moved. Why this one?

NiceLegsShameAboutTheFace · 27/01/2021 17:18

I have been roundly set upon on this thread for not having the same stance as most and it’s sad that we can’t have a discussion without abuse being hurled

Funnily enough, it was you that called me a "dick" .....

I was merely mildly patronising

Fembot123 · 27/01/2021 17:19

@NiceLegsShameAboutTheFace

I have been roundly set upon on this thread for not having the same stance as most and it’s sad that we can’t have a discussion without abuse being hurled

Funnily enough, it was you that called me a "dick" .....

I was merely mildly patronising

You were being a dick, I stand by that 😁

merrymouse · 27/01/2021 17:20

I don’t believe that an individual who identifies as a woman would go through the hell of not fitting in anywhere, confusion, abuse physical and verbal, hormone therapy and potentially surgery just to rape someone in a toilet.

No need to do any of that if all facilities are unisex by default. You are also wide of the mark if you believe that there is any requirement for somebody to take hormones or undergo surgery or even dress in a particular way to identify as trans - which is why some organisations have just taken the line of least resistance and declared facilities gender neutral.

lifeturnsonadime · 27/01/2021 17:21

I said it before and I'll say it again but this issue goes beyond who gets to go in which toilets.

It is really important to be able to define the word woman in a meaningful way if it now must encompass more than people with 2 x chromosomes, which we are being told , with no debate, that it must.

If women are no longer just people with 2 X chromosomes then what are they and why? My entire belief system has been based on this biological belief, I deserve to understand what I must accept as an alternative, and why.

Because the definition of women is important.

DancingLady · 27/01/2021 17:21

Fembot123 a few of us missed the post where you defined in simple terms what you think a woman is. Can you repeat it please?

Quaagars · 27/01/2021 17:21

colouringindoors
It's back in AIBU now and has been for several hours. Only briefly moved this afternoon but just as quickly got put back again (was explained upthread by MN)
Wish they were able to put the poll back though, would have been good to see a percentage

ListeningQuietly · 27/01/2021 17:22

I have a friend who was born a man and uses the ladies toilets.
I have no problem with it
because they had full surgery over 30 years ago
and were a very effeminate boy.

They are the exception that proves the rule
because even with that history
instantly one meets them, any woman knows that they are not XX

People with a penis and testicles are Men.

DancingLady · 27/01/2021 17:22

@lifeturnsonadime

I said it before and I'll say it again but this issue goes beyond who gets to go in which toilets.

It is really important to be able to define the word woman in a meaningful way if it now must encompass more than people with 2 x chromosomes, which we are being told , with no debate, that it must.

If women are no longer just people with 2 X chromosomes then what are they and why? My entire belief system has been based on this biological belief, I deserve to understand what I must accept as an alternative, and why.

Because the definition of women is important.

Great post, thank you.

RedDogsBeg · 27/01/2021 17:22

@Fembot123 would you answer my question about Phillip/Pippa Bunce?

BrumBoo · 27/01/2021 17:22

29 pages since this morning and nobody's being allowed to discuss.

It's not a discussion though, is it @Quaagars? As always, it's decended into posters having to defend themselves against those crying 'bigot' because women have dared to discuss women's sex based rights. With the same people popping up with the same tired old nonsense about 'poor trans people', when the discussion is about women, and then refusing to expand on how people who live by gender should have the right to the same spaces as those who live by sex because they cannot accept there's a very obvious difference.

Fembot123 · 27/01/2021 17:22

@merrymouse

I don’t believe that an individual who identifies as a woman would go through the hell of not fitting in anywhere, confusion, abuse physical and verbal, hormone therapy and potentially surgery just to rape someone in a toilet.

No need to do any of that if all facilities are unisex by default. You are also wide of the mark if you believe that there is any requirement for somebody to take hormones or undergo surgery or even dress in a particular way to identify as trans - which is why some organisations have just taken the line of least resistance and declared facilities gender neutral.

Fair enough ☺️

toconclude · 27/01/2021 17:23

@SeasonFinale

I think people should be banned from posting their anti trans stuff on the general pages of MN such as AIBU.

THIS. Because it's never "asking a question", is it. It's all about banging on against transwomen and bandying around pseudoscience to justfy bigotry. See too many responses to this thread. You might all like to reflect how once all these types of argument (it's not natural, they are predators, they are just perverts who should be forced to stay 'normal') were once used against gay people. Then be ashamed of yourselves.

OvaHere · 27/01/2021 17:24

@Quaagars

This is happening it’s insidious and it’s real. We are not even being allowed to debate

29 pages since this morning and nobody's being allowed to discuss.
Er......

Wow! That's insane.

You sound like you're brand new to these threads with that comment, and you didn't know that before, but you're not, you're a FWR regular?
So I'd have thought you'd know that was what some think

My comment was about the business woman thrown out of the Scottish meeting. For some reason it didn't quote properly.

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 27/01/2021 17:24

If TW are women can somebody explain to me, slowly I case I'm a bit thick obv, what is the proven difference between a TW and a biological man? To show I'm not being transphobic I'd like to qualify this question by saying whilst I would not want to be undressed in front of a TW I also wouldn't want to be undressed in front of any man who wasn't either my DH or a HCP in the context of a medical examination.

pulls up chair. And waits

Fembot123 · 27/01/2021 17:25

[quote RedDogsBeg]@Fembot123 would you answer my question about Phillip/Pippa Bunce?[/quote]
😂😂 God you lot are needy. I don’t know who he is but sounds like you are describing someone who is a transvestite not a transsexual.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 27/01/2021 17:25

Have you? Can you forward to me please? What's a woman? I missed your answer.

I also asked Fembot this question and also seem to have missed the answer.

I'd be very interested in the definition.

@OvaHere - excellent post - thank you.