AIBU to think women should not be banned from Social media for asking the question

[Angryresister]

Many women have been suspended from sm for asking the question:
“Do you believe that male sexed people should be allowed access to changing rooms and showers for female sexed people and teenagers?”
Seems like a perfectly reasonable question which we should be allowed to ask

[lifeturnsonadime]

I know a lot of Transwomen, i can assure you, not ONE of them has ANY kind of intention of abusing/raping a woman, and i have absolutely no issue in sharing shower/bathroom space with them, and have done at various conventions where we've used the spaces swimming pools/public toilets.

I'm sure you do. This is not about thinking that all transwomen have ulterior motives. It's not about what they want.

It's about women's rights enshrined in law to single sex spaces.

It wasn't that long ago that we had to fight for the right to vote, and for these spaces.

Women had to stay at home or pee in the street if they were caught short.

The very fact that male bodied people want the right to go into our spaces offends some womens boundaries. It is not for men to decide what those boundaries are. The result of this is that some women will chose to stay at home, but who cares, right?

[Simarilion]

There is so much double think going on it's just bizarre- why do we accept people who believe they are a different biological sex to that encoded by their own chromosomes, when we condemn or laugh at someone who believes they a different age to their biological age, or claims to be a totally different race? If I believe I am the fastest person alive does that become true? Can I identify as royalty? No. Why are these different to biological sex? And lets not forget that a huge part of the trans trend was started by the same Dr who started the trend for limb amputations for body dysmorphia.

[teawamutu]

Jewish women, Muslim women - they have to accept a penis in their changing room?

Except mostly, they won't. They will just stop using the facility. They will lose 100% of their provision in order that the male person may select their preference from all the spaces.

That's OK, is it? Objection to that is anti-trans, is it?

[Whatwouldscullydo]

Its a good question.

To answer would be to revealing

Best ban

[DingDongDenny]

I know a lot of Transwomen, i can assure you, not ONE of them has ANY kind of intention of abusing/raping a woman

I know a lot of MEN, i can assure you, not ONE of them has ANY kind of intention of abusing/raping a woman.

The reason we have single sex spaces is for safety, modesty and dignity. This does not change that

Also, why do people always ignore the fact that women from several religions can't share spaces with male bodied people - do their needs not matter?

[truthisalie]

It's going to get worse, OP, unfortunately.

[truthisalie]

What facilities should they use?

Unisex?

[DedlyMedally]

What do you do with transmen.
Say, someone who looks like Buck Angel?
images.app.goo.gl/iZcUbfiVPsHNTHYf7

Would he need to show his genitals to the guard?
Bring some sort of genetic testing results?

How do you identify a transwoman who generally "passes" without eyeing up their crotches?
Even for the ones that don't pass, how are you going to be sure you're looking at a transwoman, rather than an unfortunate looking woman?

[Whatwouldscullydo]

Where transmen go is up to them, if men don't like them.using their facilities then that's fir men to sort out.

Why do all these problems fall ro us to solve all the time. We aren't everyones sodding mother

[Thedramasummer]

@Whatwouldscullydo

They still would be at risk of encountering a penis.

[WeatherwaxOn]

teawam thankyou. There need to be suitable facilities for all.
Women should not be using facilities in fear of having their private/safe spaces infiltrated.
But the people I spoke of have nothing in common, other than chromosomes, with men. Surely they are entitled to a space that is safe for them too

This doesn't mean I support the chipping away of the concept of women; We are not 'people who menstruate'. In a society where so many things are divided (rightly or wrongly) by sexual characteristics it is difficult to ensure that everyone feels safe and respected.
Surely someone who has undergone radical physical surgery is not the same as an intact male putting on a skirt and a bit of lipstick?

[NettleTea]

@Angryresister even fewer FtM have had genital surgery than Mtf

its highly unlikely that they will encounter penis and, being biologically female, they would not statistically be in the demographic which uses that penis for sexual assaault (less than 3% of sexual crime committed by biological females) Even if we are looking at lesser crimes such as voyerism/upskirting/flashing, its not biological women who are doing this, however they identify

whereas most MtF retain their penis. Even the small number who have surgery, it is generally not genital surgery - its tits and facial feminisation.

most people think 'transexual' when they hear the word transgender. Things have moved a long long way from there. Transexuals make up a tiny tiny minority of who comes under the trans umbrella, and this is why women are trying to conciousness raise as to who, exactly, has sneaked under there too. It is precicely THOSE people, the same men who were always a problem, who are the problem.

And thats not even addressing the privacy/dignity/right to say no question

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/the-elephant-in-the-room

[HermioneWeasley]

@GloGirl how do we tell if a male person is definitely a woman at heart? If a see a naked male in the open plan changing room at my gym, how do I know that he’s a woman at heart? Would it be any less upsetting for a survivor of sexual violence or a Muslim woman or just any woman who doesn’t want to see a strangers penis to know they were a woman at heart?

[nanbread]

I haven't been in a women's only changing room for years, only unisex. Also women's loos are becoming less common, at my workplace of the last 15 years they have all been unisex (individual cubicles).

Never had a problem in any of these spaces, why not move towards a cubicled model which both avoids "othering" trans or non binary people and removes the issue of women being concerned about penises.

Yes it will require some literal structural changes in venues, but so would creating a third space.

[endofthelinefinally]

Men only, women only, mixed, accessible. Surely the majority of large public buildings could provide 4 categories?
Small/ private businesses could have one or 2 accessible to all cubicles.
The problem is that whenever this is suggested the overwhelming, aggressive response from male people who identify as female, is that the only acceptable choice is that any male who wants to must be allowed free access to exclusively female spaces. The needs and feelings of women is not a consideration.
It isn't just toilets. It is refuges, rape crisis services, hospital wards and so on.

[lifeturnsonadime]

@DedlyMedally

What do you do with transmen.
Say, someone who looks like Buck Angel?
images.app.goo.gl/iZcUbfiVPsHNTHYf7

Would he need to show his genitals to the guard?
Bring some sort of genetic testing results?

How do you identify a transwoman who generally "passes" without eyeing up their crotches?
Even for the ones that don't pass, how are you going to be sure you're looking at a transwoman, rather than an unfortunate looking woman?

Why should we (women) do anything with them? I don't understand the question.

We have the right in law to single sex spaces. It may be that some transwomen have used women's facilities before, who knows?

What is being objected to is the 'no debate' and silencing of women who want to protect single sex spaces that are enshrined in the Equality Act and the dismissal of valid concerns as bigotry.

If you know who Buck Angel is you know enough about this debate to understand the consequences of the removal of the provisions of the Equality Act and you know enough to know that in this country lobby groups are urging private companies and public organisations to ignore the Equality Act without the matter being debated in parliament. Women stand to lose, especially already vulnerable women and ethnic and religious minorities.

[2020canfuckitself]

I have been banned for 30 for hate speech for asking this very question. I wasn't rude, I just aired my concerns

[GloGirl]

[quote HermioneWeasley]@GloGirl how do we tell if a male person is definitely a woman at heart? If a see a naked male in the open plan changing room at my gym, how do I know that he’s a woman at heart? Would it be any less upsetting for a survivor of sexual violence or a Muslim woman or just any woman who doesn’t want to see a strangers penis to know they were a woman at heart?[/quote]
But the fact that this male bodied person is in a female space is how you know they are female at heart. Because they obviously have a feminine soul. Obviously.

[WeatherwaxOn]

I am curious as to which facilities f to m transitioned persons should use. Presumably the female; but the person I am thinking of has a beard and hairy chest but not male genitalia. So they appear male but without checking their underwear, it's not obvious.

To me, a logical solution would be to provide cubicles with showers in that also include sufficient space to change. However this would reduce the amount of shower/changing space.
Ditto toilets. It would be easy to have cubicles which have a sink and mirror, hand dryer etc., but again they would take up more room.

[QueenoftheAir]

Twitter is a platform for incels. Sad little men.

[Blubellsarebells]

If your transwomen friends cared as much about your feelings of safety and being respected as you do about theirs, they would ve campaigning for third spaces.
Why aren't they?
It seems like the obvious solution but nobody on that side ever mentions it.
Its almost like male feelings are more important than women's dignity and boundaries.

[nanbread]

Also have people really been suspended over just asking this question?