AIBU to think women should not be banned from Social media for asking the question

[Angryresister]

Many women have been suspended from sm for asking the question:
“Do you believe that male sexed people should be allowed access to changing rooms and showers for female sexed people and teenagers?”
Seems like a perfectly reasonable question which we should be allowed to ask

@DickKerrLadies

Does that mean the poll is gone too?

It was 90-10 in favour of YANBU, at the time of being moved.

Around 520 + votes in that split

@wildraisins
The people who need safeguarding are those who are vulnerable. In this particular case, trans women are more vulnerable

At least you are honest. Here it is folks. Wildraisins has had the honesty to admit that they believe women should be put at risk to protect transwomen.

I personally think that is an immoral and revolting position but at least it is honest.

@wildraisins comment that women concerned about women's fairness and safety are 'attacking transwomen' is not honest though.
It is pretty clear that the concerns are based on eroding sex based protections putting women at risk from males regardless of whether they identify as trans or not. Its not a difficult concept to grasp as I have to wonder at the motivation of those who refuse to grasp it.

Shame this was moved. It's good that the debate was reaching a wider audience and attracting a wider range of views.

Quick, we mustnt allow women to be seen talking perfect sense on the most popular board on Mumsnet! Hide it in FWR!

This sort of thing is exactly the reason why I'm not a premium member.

Very much so Brum

It says AIBU in the thread title and everything. That's more than some AIBU threads.

I feel it’s time to bring Prof Brian into this debate

It's pretty ironic, since the entire thread is about whether women should be allowed to talk about this.

@wildraisins
If you care about those things then I highly suggest you support a domestic abuse charity or another charity that works towards helping victims, rather than jumping on the TERF bandwagon and attacking trans people

Are you denying that women and girls have been assaulted due to the removal of sex segregated spaces? Or do you consider that acceptable for what you perceive as a greater good?

Oh, @EdgeOfACoin, we can't have that now can we

Back in our wimmins talk box everyone!

Well, yes DKL.

Exactly.

I recommend Stonewall as a starting point.

The same Stonewall that when 3 gay men were murdered last year in a homophobic attack, they decided to call them "LGBT people"?

Telling people who disagree or don't understand gender beliefs to read Stonewall is the equivalent of telling atheists to read the Bible to gain a true understanding of God. When in fact it manages to do quite the opposite....

@JellySlice

I'm interested if anyone on this thread can find me one reliable example (just one) of when a trans woman has actually assaulted a cis woman in a female changing room

Was that a serious question? I assume it must be, but I’m floored that you wouldn’t know of at least one example yourself.

It fascinates me that you have come on to a thread to advocate so forcefully for your position without really understanding the facts.

Are you also aware that according to MoJ figures the rate of TW who are sex offenders is significantly higher than the general population, suggesting that either TW sexually offend at a far higher rate than men or that sexually violent men have used the pretence of being a TW to commit sexual offences.

@MrsHusky

No she shouldn't be banned but, its not THAT black and white as some people are saying.

I know a lot of Transwomen, i can assure you, not ONE of them has ANY kind of intention of abusing/raping a woman, and i have absolutely no issue in sharing shower/bathroom space with them, and have done at various conventions where we've used the spaces swimming pools/public toilets.

Personally, there ought to be a 'genderless' facility available for those who dont want to be in the male/female spaces, or lockable cubicles provided now.

There are enough non-binary folk around who aren't trans, but who still dont want to be in their bio-gender bathrooms that society ought to adapt to be inclusive.

I know a lot of straight men who have no intention of abusing women but, they shouldn’t have access to female facilities either. Just because the intent isn’t there,doesn’t mean that we have to share our spaces.

Really disappointed that Mumsnet has moved this.

Why? It's a thread about women being silenced. By moving it away from the high traffic forum you are effectively doing the same. Not good.

@HebeMumsnet WHY has this been moved off AIBU?? Are you afraid of who might see the results of the poll? WOMEN need to see that this is happening to their sex-based rights. MUMS (on MUMSnet- the clue is in the name!) need to know the very real potential threats to their children from this. If you confine every debate on this to the feminism board, then only people interested in the feminism board will read about it. It is important that as wide an audience as possible know about this... or are you censoring the debate?? Are you CENSORING women? I’ve been a long term user of mumsnet and have always felt it is open and a great space for women (and men) to discuss things openly. This has made me really angry, sad and afraid.

A bit gaslighty.

[quote PegasusReturns]@JellySlice

I'm interested if anyone on this thread can find me one reliable example (just one) of when a trans woman has actually assaulted a cis woman in a female changing room

Was that a serious question? I assume it must be, but I’m floored that you wouldn’t know of at least one example yourself.

It fascinates me that you have come on to a thread to advocate so forcefully for your position without really understanding the facts.

Are you also aware that according to MoJ figures the rate of TW who are sex offenders is significantly higher than the general population, suggesting that either TW sexually offend at a far higher rate than men or that sexually violent men have used the pretence of being a TW to commit sexual offences.[/quote]
Re your last paragraph: these are the figures for those in prison, aren't they? So fairly clear-cut data. I'd expect the authorities, or maybe a reliable sociologist/criminologist, to be investigating to find out which is the true explanation. I haven't yet heard of one doing so. Does anyone know? It seems important so that the data & conclusions reached can be used to inform policy.

@SirenSays

I know several transpeople. One is huge bear, 6'1 with a long beard and beer belly. If he used the women's bathroom there would be outrage. He belongs in the men's.

It says a lot about the current state of things that I'm not sure here whether you are talking about a transwoman or a transman.

This is what happens when there is zero qualification to being trans other than perhaps stating pronouns.

Who asked to have the thread moved? Not the OP presumably? so did MNHQ decide it wasn't actually asking an AIBU question - even though it clearly was? As a PP said the endless Coronavirus AIBUs are left rather than being moved so what is different about this thread that means it can't stay on the main forum?

Actually (re-reading) isn't the alternative explanation for the apparent higher rate of sex offending, that these criminals are pretending to be TW after they've been caught/convicted?

Perfectly reasonable question.

But no one would ever do that .

@HebeMumsnet this issue is specifically of interest and importance to mothers - not just those mothers who would read the FWR forum. Those with young kids are likely to be too busy. I know I was, when mine were young. Yet our society is changing around us. The question was quite reasonably an AIBU. I agree with those who say this is another form of online silencing women's voices. Mothers who are trying to reach mothers. Surely this is "Mumsnet"!!