I’m so fed up with all this vegan wankery

[TitaniaQueenOfTheFairies]

To all you actual vegans, amazing, I wish you a long and happy life.

I am just so fed up with veganism taking over the world, when I have yet to come across an actual one. *edited to say that some places in the world don’t have a choice

Restaurants falling over themselves with vegan menus offering fake meat and plastic cheese.

Veganuary - people just going to the supermarket and buying fake meat, rather than actually trying to eat differently.

People eating ‘vegan food’. Just eat an apple, or a carrot with houmous or any other naturally occurring food that an animal hasn’t produced. It’s not hard.

And I can’t even begin with all the plant based twattery. Many people have been quietly eating less or no meat, fish, eggs & dairy for many years and have had no need to pontificate about it.

I know I am probably being unreasonable but I just need to say it.

Funny isn't it that when some posters are asked to come up with the stats about the environment and prove that everyone going vegan would be better, they disappear.

Same as they ignore the point that billions of small animals are killed in the harvesting of cereal and vegetable crops, that biodiversity suffers when hedges are destroyed (to make harvesting easier), that we could not all be vegans without importing food (and using fossil derived fuel to transport it) and of course that not everyone can tolerate a diet comprised of plants such as pulses/ fungi to get protein.

The amount of vegetables needed to get the right amount of daily calcium is huge- and many young women will end up with osteoporosis as they avoid dairy. This is under reported.

Yes you can fortify your food with supplements, but that involves factories, use of fuel, transport, all bad for the environment.

*It really isn't. Compare a typical local meal here - fish, caught by line by a local and a salad of in season produce grown in backyards or local market gardens. Before the meal, it's usually a plate of locally produced cheese, dessert is a particular local dessert from fruit that grows wild on the island.

Vegan meal - fake meat packaged in plastic that has travelled across the world before going to the supermarket. Out of season vegetables, shipped in from a third world country where they get pennies in wages.*

How many people eat locally? I'd suggest a similar number, if not smaller, than those who are vegan.

In any case, even local meat and dairy need huge quanities of water and grain to produce a meal. A kilo of beef takes 15415 litres of water to produce. There are exceptions (nuts take 9000 litres), but generally a vegan diet features significantly fewer water and transportation costs. Individual foods like almond milk or avocados might be a bigger ticket, but this is a drop in the ocean comparatively.

waterfootprint.org/en/water-footprint/product-water-footprint/water-footprint-crop-and-animal-products/

I'm not a vegan, I'm vegetarian. But I'm aware of the impact dairy has and having great alternatives available makes it easier for me to make swaps. I found an amazing oat based creme fraiche last week, that wouldn't have been thought of 10 years ago. When I started being veggie years ago fake meat was helpful in making the transition. I don't eat these at all now, but they served a purpose at the time.

@JinglingHellsBells

yes. Yes. YES!

@JinglingHellsBells You want us to google how veganism can reduce the impact on the environment - really? You can't do that for yourself? I could link to loads of science articles but that won't convince you because you like many others don't want to be convinced.

@soggypizza

Yes, we do.

The burden of proof is generally on the person who asserts something.

What I do notice though is that almost every broadsheet's cookery pages are full of vegan recipes As are for example supermarkets' own magazines. It's not representative of the diet of the population Thank god - who needs another recipe for roast beef! It's vegan recipes I need - I have mountains of cookbooks with meat and vegetarian cooking. It's tried and tested easy, quick vegan recipes using ingredients found in the supermarket that my friends have asked me to send to them because they have no idea where to start with vegan cooking and they want to start eating a few vegan meals a week.

I have a lovely friend who is a vegan, he really is a nice man but can be a bit evangelical about it.

We recently went out, a group of us for lunch and a couple of drinks and a catch up.

He rocked up with a T-shirt with the word VEGAN emblazoned across his chest, there was quite a bit of eye rolling from our group (not me, it doesn’t bother me), but I think this is the sort of the thing that winds people up, the constant banging on about it (from some people.

Not a Vegan bashing post as I’m veggie myself.

@Ziraphale thanks for the link to the Science Daily piece but it does group together all meat and diary and doesn't separate out, for example, locally produced, grass-fed organic meat produced in marginal landscapes and imported meat produced on land which could be used for crops.

I understand the compassion based case for veganism very well and was vegan in the 90s when it was unusual and difficult to find vegan options eating out. My concerns are around how little knowledge most people have of different types of agriculture - grouping all animal production together and saying that it's all bad for the environment and all plant-based diets are better.

josephpoore.com/Science%20360%206392%20987%20-%20Accepted%20Manuscript.pdf

“Not a Vegan bashing post”

You could have fooled me!

I reckon it’s like on gollywog threads there’s always people who have black friends who love them. Or on feminist threads- there's people whose husbands got shouted at for holding a door open. On vegan threads everyone always has vegan friends who go on about it all the time and eat bacon sandwiches T home.They haven’t really-they’ve just picked up a lazy stereotype.

Not read the whole thread but it is very sad that people knock people for choices made based on compassion and wanting to make a small difference. Why do people hate that? Same with Greta, makes me sad that meat eaters and middle aged men are so threatened and hateful to the people trying to make things better.

A lot of angry meat eaters on this thread. Perhaps you need to eat an apple and chill out 🤔

So to be a non-annoying vegan, according to MN...

• don't tell anyone
• don't eat anything processed
• don't eat any meat substitutes
• don't pretend vegetables are as nice as meat
• don't bake for other people
• don't eat anything not grown locally
• especially not avocado
• don't have pets that eat meat
• be a vegan for decades
• don't be a new vegan
• don't forget, don't tell anyone

The amount of vegetables needed to get the right amount of daily calcium is huge- and many young women will end up with osteoporosis as they avoid dairy. This is under reported.

You know that most of the world don't consume dairy don't you? It is milk for baby cows, it's not necessary at all!

Thisnamechanger.

Sounds about right!

Why have vegan options replaced veggie? Because people are slowly beginning to see that vegetarianism is pointless when the dairy and egg industry is so cruel. As for processed meat options I find it's just good to know that I can grab something easily when we are out while cooking with vegetables at home.

I don’t eat much meat and not mega keen on fish so generally eat veggie out - hate that you can’t get a proper vegetarian meal and it’s subbed w vegan shite (fake cheese etc). I had to have a vegan burger the other week - asked for it w cheese! I think it was a bean one rather than fake meat though.
I have a vegan friend in FB and she pushes the vegan agenda constantly. That’s the sort of thing that turns me right off.
I know a few vegans and a lot of vegetarians - pretty ‘normal’ to me.

I don’t have a problem with people being vegan, but I think it’s a shame for vegetarians that a lot of places just have a vegan option now instead of a vegetarian and a vegan option. I know a lot of veggies who like cheese, butter, eggs etc and don’t think they should only have the vegan option. My MIL is veggie and we went out for a meal recently, she went for the curry option. The meat version came with rice, naan and poppadoms. The veggie option was now vegan so came only with rice. She did get poppadoms but they charged her extra for them as they weren’t part of the vegan curry option. I don’t think it would be hard for the restaurant to have a meat option, veggie option and vegan option for something like a curry!

@catalystc Yes of course I know that. But the 'rest of the world' who don't eat dairy are mainly 3rd world countries where they consume tonnes of vegetables/pulses, they have far more active lifestyles, their bone density will show genetic racial differences anyway AND they are likely to die from other things ( far lower life expectancy) owing to lack of medical care/ disease long before osteoporosis affects them.

You didn't think of that did you?

Why have vegan options replaced veggie? Because people are slowly beginning to see that vegetarianism is pointless when the dairy and egg industry is so cruel.

In restaurants it's because menu size is limited and vegetarians can eat vegan, but not vice versa.

I don’t think it would be hard for the restaurant to have a meat option, veggie option and vegan option for something like a curry!

Poppadums are vegan anyway. Naan bread are easy to make vegan, or they could have done another. The restaurant just needed to be less cheap with the vegan option.

I will never support a vegan diet for the sake of it because I grew up exposed to one and know how unhealthy it can be. Eggs, honey, even dairy has a place in the human diet and many people cut it out without thinking about what they are replacing it with. Replacing real eggs with a chemical substitute or dairy with unfortified nut purees / chemical cheese is never going to be healthy in the long term.

@ PurpleDaisies - Naan bread in Indian restaurants where Indians like to eat will never be vegan because yeast is often considered a non-veg option by certain communities - that’s why yoghurt is used as a rising agent. If you want the vegan option then go for the roti or puri as long as it’s made without butter.

www.theargus.co.uk/news/17937910.cctv-violent-scuffle-vegan-activists-protest-brighton/

this is what puts people of vegans. now we all know this is just the extremists. but they do no good for vegans.

Thanks Jingling, I don't agree though. I eat loads of veg and pulses and I play a sport 4 nights a week and spend my working day walking for 1/3 of it. I am very fit and healthy.

Back to meat, have you been on a cardio ward? They are not full of vegetarians and vegans I can assure you. Fat, meat eating men in their 50s and 60s. All suffering because they eat meat 3x a bloody day and moan about bloody vegans.

Teddybear most of the world don't eat dairy! We are living in a bubble.