I’m so fed up with all this vegan wankery

[TitaniaQueenOfTheFairies]

To all you actual vegans, amazing, I wish you a long and happy life.

I am just so fed up with veganism taking over the world, when I have yet to come across an actual one. *edited to say that some places in the world don’t have a choice

Restaurants falling over themselves with vegan menus offering fake meat and plastic cheese.

Veganuary - people just going to the supermarket and buying fake meat, rather than actually trying to eat differently.

People eating ‘vegan food’. Just eat an apple, or a carrot with houmous or any other naturally occurring food that an animal hasn’t produced. It’s not hard.

And I can’t even begin with all the plant based twattery. Many people have been quietly eating less or no meat, fish, eggs & dairy for many years and have had no need to pontificate about it.

I know I am probably being unreasonable but I just need to say it.

No sign of the OP after their initial post then?

I agree that people who get annoyed by the rise of veganism are insecure about their own choices. I’m not a vegan...I’m not even a vegetarian, but I have no problem with the choices on offer and general buzz around the subject at the moment. It offers me more choice as well as an opportunity to learn and think more about the process my ‘food’ goes through to reach my plate...and what is wrong with that?

I’m not a vegan, I’m a vegetarian from birth, I have never eaten meat, fish or diary, I do eat a very small amount of eggs from a friends chickens.

I don’t care what anyone else eats, but with vegetarianism and veganism being more popular I do find eating out much easier.

Oh and just to say to anyone who brings up the ‘what’s the point of fake meat?’ chestnut...it’s not about not liking the taste and texture of meat (although this will be true for some), it’s political. It’s obvious why there is a market for fake meat products. If you refuse to see that then you’re being obstinately thick just to get a jibe in. Who’s being the arsehole now?

It's a marketing fad.

Low fat, sugar free, gluten free, paleo, Atkins, clean eating, vegan, plant-based....

They all get their moments in the sun.

Meat production impacts hugely on the planet, with the world's population growing, our appetite for animal products is detrimental to the planet.

No one can argue that vegetarianism and veganism is a bad thing, it is good for people's health and good for the planet.

People who argue that vegans are annoying etc. And even start threads about it are making themselves look very stupid.

I'm not a vegan but I do respect the choice they've made for their health, animal welfare and the planet.

There is a lot of ignorance, prejudice and misinformation on this thread.
Vitamin B12 is the only nutritional element that cannot be sourced naturally. Some people find it difficult to absorb non haem iron, making animal products - meat and eggs, a better source of iron for them. Vitamin B12 is in many fortified foods, or it can be bought from places like Holland and Barratt. As for protein, plant protein is easy to find and while it contains fewer amino acids than animal protein it is perfectly possible to have a protein rich vegan diet these days. Although it must be difficult if the vegan is coeliac and has a nut allergy.

I agree that the assumption that all vegetarians are vegan is irritating. I imagine that cafes and restaurants think they are covering all bases this way, but I can’t see why they can’t add a slice of proper cheese to a veggie burger to make it into a cheeseburger. I do draw the line at plant milk and vegan cheese. I must have tried them all by now, and plant milk just does not hit the spot in my morning cuppa, and fake cheese just tastes vile.

The argument that all veggie protein is over processed is silly. Such a lot of meat products are over processed – cured meats, chicken nuggets made from reformed chopped up chicken, sausages etc

Fake meat these days is much better than ever. A lot of ex meat eaters miss the texture of meat, and many of the newer fake meats manage to satisfy this.

I am not vegan, or even vegetarian, but I have an open mind about food. One of my favourite places to eat is Make no Bones. The food is so good and doesn’t taste at all worthy or “knit your own lentils”

Personally I dislike militant vegans as much as militant meat eaters. There is room in the world for all of us without people having an axe to grind about what other people eat.

No one can argue that vegetarianism and veganism is a bad thing, it is good for people's health and good for the planet.

How good is it for the planet really though, when you are shipping loads of your food (eg. Quinoa - it's a 'complete protein' you know - jackfruit, avocados) halfway around the world?

Surely eating locally sourced food, including a bit of meat and dairy, is far better? Being a 'local produce only' vegan would be pretty boring though wouldn't it?

This thread is like carnist bingo.

Look, you want to eat meat and animal products. Ok. But stop the mental gymnastics and own your choices and their consequences.

You have made an active choice to consume a product which is associated with the death and suffering of sentient beings. Everyone knows that meat is a bit of dead body. Everyone knows that milk production involves killing baby animals. Everyone knows that egg production also involves killing baby animals. These aren't opinions, it is basic facts.

You make your dietary choices in full knowledge of this and you've decided that your conscience can cope because you like meat, dairy and eggs more than you don't like animal death. Fine.

But stop lying. Climate change scientists are fairly unanimous in that animal agriculture is killing the planet. The UN climate change report was crystal clear on this.

So stop pretending you're exempt from that. Stop trying to find 'gotchas' because other people are trying.

And no, buying locally sourced meat and dairy is not better for the environment than imported veg (www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/10/181023110627.htm). You haven't somehow found an ethical one up, sorry to disappoint.

Nobody is saying that you can't eat meat and dairy. Your diet is not under threat. But be honest with yourself about what you're doing and stop spreading myths. Meat is dead animals. Humane slaughter is an oxymoron. Animals feel fear and pain, they bond with their babies and they are being abused and killed to put food on your plate. And it's damaging the planet. Climate change science is real and robust.

I'm sorry but it's reality. If you get so much pleasure from animal products that you get upset at the idea of giving them up then ok. Nobody is taking that away from you. Own it and keep doing what you're doing or stop if you want but don't lie to yourself and others. Stop with the 'gotchas' and the fantasies that what you're doing has no consequences.

I don't think the OP was objecting to veganism but the bandwagon jumping that's going on.

I think it's good because it's choice. It is creating a situation where it's ok to eat vegan food sometimes and not have to fully commit to a vegan lifestyle that for many people is simply not something they will do. Often people don't know where to start, but if something is explicitly stated on a menu as vegan then it's an easy choice. I had a vegan pizza in Pizza express yesterday, it was very nice.

We've been having 1-2 vegan meals a week (I have given up all dairy too since June) , so for us as a family that is reducing our meat consumption by 5-10%. If every family did this, what sort of impact would it have? ^^

And we have had jackfruit. Purely on the back of vegan 'wankery'- but surely everything was once new and exotic? Tinned pineapple?

I love how 2019 has had everyone switched on to environmental issues and long may it continue. It's about time.

@Myghastisflabbered Sadly I have not mastered the art of living on sunlight alone...and my gardening skills leave a lot to be desired, so I'm doing the best I can. I'm not claiming to be saving the planet or preventing all animals from dying, but what I'm doing is good enough for me and I don't need to justify myself to anyone

But you have just given up 10 mins of your life to do exactly that..

Imagine being bothered about vegans getting more choice. No one is forcing you to eat it. Go and eat your meat.

what I feel is 'wrong' is that as someone said, there is less than 2% of the population who are vegan but with the amount of media coverage/ recipes/ promotion of it, you'd think it was 99% of the population. That's my objection.

I do not object to eating meat per se. I do object to animal welfare that rears animals in disgusting conditions and pumps them full of drugs.

For years I only ate organic meat and very sparingly- once a week as it's expensive. I think if more people could object to animal welfare and reduce meat consumption it would be good but going vegan is not always healthy- as shown by some stats last week that it can increase risk of stroke.

Also not everyone can tolerate a vegan diet. I have slight IBS and cannot eat piles of beans - they wreck my guts. So not everyone has the choice.

I do agree to some degree, especially the pontification, but as a ‘real’ vegan I also agree with pp that the sudden increase in good vegan food at supermarkets or restaurants is a bonus!!

It's important to talk about it and raise awareness. Outside the chattering classes, many people are still stuck in the 'meat and two veg' meals of the 1950s-80s and can use the frequent reminders that meals free from animal products can be nutritious and tasty. I think it's great that quite an 'elite' way of eating is becoming more mainstream. Fake meat is generally just soya/wheat protein. Hardly the end of the world.

Like hell are we switched on to environmental issues.

Most people still use disposable cups and water bottles, couldn't mend their clothes if they tried, drive everywhere, but their kids tons of plastics shit...

@JinglingHellsBells Right, so how does vegans/veganism getting media coverage affect your life in any way? Meat is still being sold. Cheese is still being sold. So are eggs.

Honestly some of these arguments just remind me of people who complain about 'gays getting all the attention even though they are 'only (insert percent) of the population'.

And we have had jackfruit. Purely on the back of vegan 'wankery'- but surely everything was once new and exotic? I have always been a fan of the new and the exotic when it comes to food.
Was surprised to hear on More or Less, that a leg of lamb has around the same carbon emissions as a person taking a short haul flight. That's more than I expected - although they were arguing down from the point that it was equivalent to a long haul flight but stil!

Big deal, I've spent 10 minutes on a thread trying to explain veganism to people who seem determined to see it as a BAD THING.

Fairly sure if I said I was giving up veganism today that would be wrong too 🙄

Each to his own. But as a veggie - take away a meat option, don’t take my cheese!

Sorry, but YABU. If it's generally a good thing (for the planet and for health) for people to become vegan, then the fact that it's now very present in the public eye, on social media, in restaurants etc can hardly be a bad thing. So it seems unnecessarily churlish to get so snarky about the way in which people do it.

What's wrong with liking the taste of meat but wanting to give it up for ethical reasons and choosing to eat an alternative that tastes a bit similar? What's wrong with going vegan for a month to see if you get on with it? What's wrong with mentioning what you're doing?

I'm not a vegetarian or a vegan, but I have no objection at all to any of this. I'd be surprised if the increased acceptability and fashionableness of vegetarianism and veganism hadn't had a positive effect on health tbh.

@Ziraphale as a lapsed vegan (orthorexic), my conversion to free range meat was due to the realisation that these animals are bred to be eaten. Ensuring they live natural lives before their deaths is preferable to never existing. All the 'baby' animals are used in pet food. Nothing is wasted.

As for the death, it's a part of life. There's no nice death. However, given the choice myself, I'd pick the quick way out rather than old age. In the wild, elderly and young animals are weak and vulnerable and die in brutal ways.

I think most of the people complaining about vegans have never actually met one! It’s bizarre how angry omnivores get about the idea of not eating meat/animal products. I would love to know why.

@motherheroic I can't recall my saying veganism affected my quality of life. Can you?
What I do notice though is that almost every broadsheet's cookery pages are full of vegan recipes. As are for example supermarkets' own magazines. It's not representative of the diet of the population.

That's all.

I think a lot of it connected with the idea of 'clean eating' and a general disconnection with the less fluffy bits of nature.

Things die so other stuff can live. That literally is life. People aren't brought up to appreciate that. They find it out as adults and go vegan. It's literal and moral hygiene.