Sam Smith coming out as non-binary - help me understand!

[namechangeblah2019]

Name changed for this in case it gets messy.

I don't know if you've seen in the news but the singer Sam Smith came out as non-binary recently and has now asked that people use they/them pronouns with regard to them.

Absolutely not a problem with using those pronouns - I'm not a fan of theirs particularly so it's unlikely that they'll be cropping up that much in conversation anyway!

But - and I promise I am not being obtuse here, I am just old and slow but I am willing to learn - what exactly is non-binary? I just can't wrap my head around it. Surely the existence of non-binariness as a concept positions it as an alternative to an existing binary (i.e. men being macho and loving beer, women being all pink and girly and love wine) which I thought we all got over (or are meant to be getting over - sadly some people are very slow on the uptake!) anyway?

If I put on a pair of trousers or drink a pint or watch football I don't feel any less like a woman. I still feel like namechangeblah2019. How can you both refute the existence of a gender binary but also claim to be outside of it?

Please be kind to me - as I say I'm not implying they are wrong at all and if that is how they feel most comfortable being referred to then good on them and we should all respect that! I just want to learn as I currently feel like a right old fogey

My authentic self is sarcastic bitch. My mamma and papa had nothing to do with aiding my development.

For I am a self-found child of nature, in the forest wild, not a king of men elsewhere, nor most sovereign slave of care. Ten points - name that poem...

Non-binary seems to me to be a good way of rejecting gender stereotypes.

Young people are obviously feeling a need for it and that probably shows that the generations above them haven't done enough to get rid of gender stereotypes.

In fact I think things have gotten progressively worse for the young people growing up now, in terms of gender expectations.

Man or woman. Sex is the long and short of it.

I think it means he likes wearing make up and high heels and he is so steeped in gender stereotypes that he thinks this makes him no longer a man.

All I can think of now is The Ballad of Barry and Freda by Victoria Wood. The very essence of Feminine Lovemaking!

Let's do it, let's do it, I really want to run amock!
Let's wriggle!
Let's jiggle!
Let's really make the rafters rock!
Be mighty,
Be flighty come and melt the buttons on my flame-proof nightie!
Let's do it, let's do it tonight!

Non-binary seems to me to be a good way of rejecting gender stereotypes.

He might think that’s what he’s doing, but by claiming to feel ‘like a woman’ he’s actually reinforcing gender stereotypes.

Rejecting gender would be wearing high heels etc and saying ‘Fuck gender stereotypes, I can wear whatever I want and still be a man because my sex is male.’

Non-binary seems to me to be a good way of rejecting gender stereotypes

But he's doing the complete opposite! He's saying, I like heels and a pretty dress and some lipstick so I must be a woman. If he was rejecting gender stereotypes he would say I'm a man who enjoys playing about with lipstick and high heels. That I would applaud him for.

I’m a woman. I know I’m a woman because I’m going through the fucking menopause. Being a woman is so much part of me that I don’t stop to ponder on my femininity as I pull on my jeans, or a dress, depending on what’s clean and ironed.

I’m not playing a part- I’m just me. Being a woman is not about wearing makeup and letting men dominate you.

For goodness sake, woman up, woman! Just self ID yourself as 20 or a man. Sheesh 🙄

I was with my male hairdresser today who had Gynaecomastia as a child (growing breasts) so a proper medical condition which I could understand may make someone transition. His view though is no he's gay and he's proud of it and was born a boy and that's how he'll stay.

But he's doing the complete opposite! He's saying, I like heels and a pretty dress and some lipstick so I must be a woman.

He's not saying I must be a woman though is he? He's saying I'm non-binary.

If he was rejecting gender stereotypes he would say I'm a man who enjoys playing about with lipstick and high heels.

Well I think that is what he's saying. But non-binary can mean I'm a man or a woman who likes basically anything I like.

He's not saying I must be a woman though is he? He's saying I'm non-binary.

Yes, he's saying he must not be truly a man. As people have said, this is bullshit. A man can dance and wear dresses and lipstick and still be a man. Sam thinks he can't enjoy those things and not at least partly be a woman.

Which is nonsense.

My pronouns are a cymbal crash. Like this “K-T’sh” With single hand clap.

My pronouns are a primal scream. You'd better make it really high, as well.

Lord

Mine are like Kate bush; let me in
At your windowowowow....

Kate best you to it... m.youtube.com/watch?v=NxZiDQ6Iw5s

Radio announcer today mentioned this "SS has come out as non binary and he wants to be referred to by they and them pronouns. Now let's play one of his hits".

The problem is this idea that our sex comes with a personality. It's nonsense, sexist shitty backward unprogressive nonsense.

Exactly. Gender is not progressive or special or exciting. It’s a reinforcement of old fashioned chauvinist shit.

I'm getting flashbacks to when Prince wanted to be known as 'unintelligible squiggle' and became 'the artist formerly known as Prince'.

Radio announcer today mentioned this "SS has come out as non binary and he wants to be referred to by they and them pronouns. Now let's play one of his hits

This is just too good!

I was with my male hairdresser today who had Gynaecomastia as a child (growing breasts) so a proper medical condition which I could understand may make someone transition. His view though is no he's gay and he's proud of it and was born a boy and that's how he'll stay.

According to his Wikipedia page Smith was bullied for having breasts as a child.

Lost of kids are - boys and girls.

another nobody trying to make himself relevant. Yawn

It's weird reading the Wikipedia entry, all the retrospective stuff is now they/them too - so something he said at a time when he was happy to use "he" is being quoted as a "they". I'm sorry he experienced bullying as a child and what sounds like a medical condition. Absolutely not the same as being female though, or feeling like a woman sometimes which is what I think he said - what does that mean?

who really gives a shit what he describes himself as, self indulgent look at me total bollocks