Sam Smith coming out as non-binary - help me understand!

[namechangeblah2019]

Name changed for this in case it gets messy.

I don't know if you've seen in the news but the singer Sam Smith came out as non-binary recently and has now asked that people use they/them pronouns with regard to them.

Absolutely not a problem with using those pronouns - I'm not a fan of theirs particularly so it's unlikely that they'll be cropping up that much in conversation anyway!

But - and I promise I am not being obtuse here, I am just old and slow but I am willing to learn - what exactly is non-binary? I just can't wrap my head around it. Surely the existence of non-binariness as a concept positions it as an alternative to an existing binary (i.e. men being macho and loving beer, women being all pink and girly and love wine) which I thought we all got over (or are meant to be getting over - sadly some people are very slow on the uptake!) anyway?

If I put on a pair of trousers or drink a pint or watch football I don't feel any less like a woman. I still feel like namechangeblah2019. How can you both refute the existence of a gender binary but also claim to be outside of it?

Please be kind to me - as I say I'm not implying they are wrong at all and if that is how they feel most comfortable being referred to then good on them and we should all respect that! I just want to learn as I currently feel like a right old fogey

I'm getting flashbacks to when Prince wanted to be known as 'unintelligible squiggle' and became 'the artist formerly known as Prince'.

this was always ridiculous.

I believe he had a pronunciation worked out (was it deep deep?)

The person I mentioned isn't seeking any attention. Just getting on with their life in a way that fits with their view of themselves. Has the one name, I have no idea whether that is one their parents chose or a self-chosen one, and either way it is none of my business.

They have gone out of their way to help me out on occasion, rather more out of their way than it takes me to comply with their wishes regarding their pronoun.

Why do you resent their choices so much?

People keep mentioning Prince. So far as I recall he’d been in a contract dispute with his record label for a long time, to the extent he refused interviews and appeared with the word slave on his cheek. He then went on to be represented by the symbol, a mix of male and female to represent love. This was because the record company had trademarked his name and refused to release his music.
He also counselled young artists about contracts and signing away their rights.

I think all that gets mixed up with his personal style but to me he always seemed very secure in his sexuality.

Every society that I've read about that recognises so-called 'third genders' seems to use these third genders as a way of allowing a person of one sex to behave like someone of the other sex. They are not believed to have changed sex, but its accepted to switch from one 'gender category' (for want of a better phrase) to another.

But these societies tend to have quite strict gender roles anyway. So once again, it's not demonstrating a freedom from gender roles but just allows some people to follow the gender role expected from someone of the opposite sex.

I like the comment I read that said something along the lines of I'd rather smash the boxes for everyone than just exempt myself from them.

"It gets a bit complicated in conversation (one of DD's friends has a parent that doesn't identify as male or female, and it gets a bit messy saying X's-parent-not-her-mum-the-other-one) but so what? The sky doesn't fall on our heads, and the parent-not-the-mum doesn't mind if people don't get it spot on."

What absolute attention seeking bullshit.

100% agree

Allington there isn't a comparison with those lists of beliefs you gave.
For example, I could say to a brexiteer "you believe in Brexit and you have the right to your belief, but I think it's bullshit".
They are not forcing me to accept their belief, just that they have a right to one.
I could call someone "they" to be polite and make them feel better, but ultimately they want me to believe it is true that they are non binary. Which I can't as gender is a made up construct anyway so if SS is non binary by not following one set of gender roles then so am I, and half the people posting on this thread.
Happy to be polite, but it is a delusion.

"Just getting on with their life in a way that fits with their view of themselves"

They're not just getting on with it though, are they?

They're compelling others to use language.

It bothers me because it harms women and feminism.

Just had to share Sam's latest tweet as it tickled me....

What’s a ‘beat face’ and why is a willy in you ear ‘the right place’?

Poor chaps been doing sex all wrong all this time then.

Alok is 'transfeminine' apparently.

Ears are on your head, so does that make the wearer a dick head then? Just asking...

Nothing feminine about that fizzer.

Sorry, earrings come in pairs, so that would be a pair of dickeads then.

In what way is that not a photo of two men breaking sexist stereotypes of how men should dress? What makes it cross the line into being female and/or non-binary? (I have no idea what trans-feminine means and am scared to google).

I will say it again- he has too much time on his hands. Nobody with an actual life to navigate could be bothered to think about all this.

Wonder what Boy George makes of all this nonsense. He didn't need new pronouns in the 80s and yet he still managed to transcend gender stereotypes. Amazing.

He tweeted to say that labels were nonsense, but has since sided with MRAs.

Marilyn, however, understands that you can still be a man in 2019 and wear what you like without having to hijack womanhood.

Who wore dicks in their ears? The people at the Judy premier or Alok?!

Grammar, it's plural and fucks up the English language

This ^^

Yes, they is plural so really it should be it for it to make sense. Stupid man!

Allington thank you very much for those links. I had never heard of those syndromes and I certainly would never have guessed that the first one was relatively common.

Alok has been discussed on here before. I can't remember which threads but he's all sorts of wrong.

Glad we can now confirm SS must be part woman now as he's worn heels at least twice.

The tweet is nonsense. It's impossible to understand because it makes no sense once you start talking about someone as they. Earlier on Twitter I saw someone talking about 'they' and I actually had to go and check if it was about more than one person 🙄 (it wasn't).

🙄 I've misgendered and I genuinely didn't even do it on purpose. That's because it makes no logical sense to someone who has been speaking English for over 40 years.

Magdalen on Alok and non binary in general:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=CKTaAw4k3s0