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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Mueller time for Trump and his friends - will they all meet in a courtyard surrounded by a big beautiful wall? - Trump thread 92

985 replies

Lweji · 23/03/2019 08:10

Someone had to and soon.

Old thread

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3510947-It-s-a-National-Non-Emergency-Trump-thread-91

OP posts:
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39
PerkingFaintly · 24/03/2019 17:21

Pull up a chair, Hearhere!

Have a Brew and slice of Cake while we wait...

Hearhere · 24/03/2019 17:27

thank you PerkingFaintly :o

TheNorthWestPawsage · 24/03/2019 18:10

To help with the waiting. Smile
(From yesterday)

A visual representation of Robert Mueller and the active investigations he's spawned. Also, happy #NationalPuppyDay
twitter.com/thedailyedge/status/1109557115897683969?s=21

TheNorthWestPawsage · 24/03/2019 18:16

Last night the logo for the GOP fundraiser Trump and Lindsey Graham hosted at Mar-a-Lago was Abraham Lincoln wearing a MAGA hat that said “keep America great.” These people are sick and twisted. Absolutely disgusting.
twitter.com/funder/status/1109433379055943680?s=21

Mueller time for Trump and his friends - will they all meet in a courtyard surrounded by a big beautiful wall? - Trump thread 92
Missmarplesknitting · 24/03/2019 18:24

The waiting is interminable....

TheNorthWestPawsage · 24/03/2019 18:27

Biden hasn't declared he's running yet...

New Fox News Poll Has Biden Unseating Trump
The former VP leads the president by seven points
www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/fox-news-poll-biden-trump-812577/

EweSurname · 24/03/2019 19:57

This is like Devin nunes’ memo. Who knows what mueller’s report actually said

lionheart · 24/03/2019 20:03

“The Special Counsel states that ‘while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.’”

PerkingFaintly · 24/03/2019 20:11

From Barr's letter:

As the report states: "[T]he investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities."

lionheart · 24/03/2019 20:17

Neal Katyal

Verified account

@neal_katyal

'The Barr Letter says Mueller did not make a determination of whether Trump obstructed justice. It sets out both sides. But Barr concludes— on his determination — that there was no obstruction. How did he do that without trying to interview Trump? Full report now needs to come out.'

'Barr made his own decision (within 48 hours) that Trump didn't obstruct justice, even though Mueller after 2 years didn't reach a decn. And Barr says there wasnt enough evidence of corrupt intent--weird conclusion w/out even attempting to interview Trump. Barr now owns this decn'

lionheart · 24/03/2019 20:19

MSNBC:

'DEVELOPING: AG Barr will deliver his next report to Congress in 30-45 minutes, a US Justice Dept. official tells @NBCNews.'

PerkingFaintly · 24/03/2019 20:19

Too long to type out next para (for some reason I can't C&P).

But basically under Obstruction of Justice heading, letter says that report does not establish beyond a reasonable doubt that obstruction of justice occurred.

(This one sounds a bit evasive to me, as I think prosecutors don't usually hold out for beyond reasonable doubt before putting things to juries: my possibly faulty understanding is that it's usually the jury's job to decide on reasonable doubt, while it's just the prosecutor's job to assess if the evidence passes a threshold that makes it worth having a trial so that a jury gets to make that decision.)

Natsku · 24/03/2019 20:21

I have not been keeping track of things but just saw the bbc article - how can the conclusion be this?

lionheart · 24/03/2019 20:23

Neal Katyal

Verified account

@neal_katyal
5m5 minutes ago

'If I were Trump,I wouldnt be celebrating. A report from a team of fed prosecutors there was evidence a sitting President obstructed justice? Is our bar so low that this is what we want from a Pres? The exoneration here is from Barr (Trump's guy), not Mueller. Need to see Report.'

Gone4Good · 24/03/2019 20:25

MAGA! I trust my president.

lionheart · 24/03/2019 20:27

(((Rep. Nadler)))

Verified account

@RepJerryNadler

'In light of the very concerning discrepancies and final decision making at the Justice Department following the Special Counsel report, where Mueller did not exonerate the President, we will be calling Attorney General Barr in to testify before @HouseJudiciary in the near future.'

PerkingFaintly · 24/03/2019 20:30

Barr's letter is very narrowly written, Natsku. As one would expect for any legal decision.

Generally speaking, to obtain and sustain an obstruction conviction, the government would need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a person, acting with corrupt intent, engaged in obstructive conduct with a sufficient nexus to a pending or contemplated proceeding. In cataloguing the President’s actions […], the report indentifies no actions that, in our judgment, constitute obstructive conduct, had a nexus to a pending or contemplated proceeding, and were done with corrupt intent, each of which, under the Department’s principles of federal prosecution guiding charging decisions, would need to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt to establish an obstruction-of-justice offence.

Natsku · 24/03/2019 20:34

Ah right, thanks perking knew this was the place to come for explanations and clarification

Natsku · 24/03/2019 20:35

And I hope you are all ok and persisting

lionheart · 24/03/2019 20:37

Yep. Smile