Mueller time for Trump and his friends - will they all meet in a courtyard surrounded by a big beautiful wall? - Trump thread 92

[Lweji]

Someone had to and soon.

Old thread

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3510947-It-s-a-National-Non-Emergency-Trump-thread-91

Well I think I'm following what's going on!

Former Fed Prosecutor Renato Mariotto's thoughts:

THREAD: What does Attorney General Barr's summary of the Mueller report tell us? (Short answer: A lot, but there is much more that we don't know.)
twitter.com/renato_mariotti/status/1109904609374584833?s=21

www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-47337239
22:24

Congress continues to investigate Trump too
In addition to lawsuits the president faces from around the country, lawmakers on Capitol Hill are continuing their own inquiries, mostly the Democratic-controlled House of Representatives.

Senate Intelligence
The committee has already said it has uncovered no direct evidence of a conspiracy between the Trump campaign and Russia, but has yet to fully conclude its bipartisan inquiry

House Judiciary
The committee is looking into obstruction of justice, corruption, or abuse of power claims against the president

House Oversight
The committee is investigating the administration's use of security clearances - including reports that Trump overruled officials to get clearance for his son-in-law, Jared Kushner

House Ways and Means
Democrats in this committee are preparing to ask for the president's tax returns - which he has refused to release since his campaign days

House Foreign Affairs
The committee has requested all documents relating to Trump's conversations with Russian President Vladimir Putin, and will also soon reportedly look into whether the president's foreign businesses have impacted his policy decisions

House Intelligence
Like the Senate, the House is also looking into Russian interference - but they will also investigate any Russian links to Trump or his inner circle

House Financial Services
The committee will reportedly be looking into any connections with the Trump Organization and Deutsche Bank as a part of an inquiry into alleged money laundering by the Organization

*Mariotti

The Right is getting far ahead of itself and calling for penalties for the Left and pardons for those already convicted. It could get nasty. Dan Bongino is an idiot but he does have a following of deplorable idiots who parrot the same ideas as him, so even though Flynn pleaded guilty to his crimes, these dangerous thoughts gain traction.

Dan Bongino @dbongino
·
2h
Where does General Flynn go to get his reputation back for all of this nonsense? It’s a disgrace what happened to this patriot.

I think Mueller is leaving it to Congress and hoping for the publication of his report.

Barr is trying to be gatekeeper here.

“The Special Counsel therefore did not draw a conclusion — one way or the other — as to whether the examined conduct constituted obstruction.”

To sum up, Trump "patriots" are celebrating that

Russia definitely interfered in the US election
They reached out directly to Trump's camp
Trump's camp was full of crooks
We can't definitively say whether Trump was involved
Trump may or may not have obstructed justice

YAY 🎉🎈
twitter.com/sturdyalex/status/1110085243342671872?s=21

Good article from David Frum

The Question the Mueller Report Has Not Answered
Why?
www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/03/mueller-report-leaves-one-key-question-unanswered/585625/

Yep. Expectations of Trump's behaviour are so low – even from his followers – that this looks like a win in comparison.

And we still haven't actually seen the Mueller report. Just Barr's letter about it.

So I feel Frum's headline is misplaced. The Mueller report itself could contain the answer to his question – or to any number of questions still being asked.

There’s bigly smugly in the White House.
Please let this not be the end for the report.

Yes Perking you're right - until there are eyes other than Barr's on the actual report we won't know.

What I have been wondering about is Rosenstein's contribution to the letter's conclusion. As I understand it, he was involved?

Interesting take from a few: the language bused in the letter is very carefully parsed legal talk. Example "established".

Possible that the report links to indictments....why? Because is the letter and report says that trump et al commited crimes, they would be entitled to say that their trial wasn't fair. In essence, Mueller cannot be judge and jury. He can only recommend indictments via the courts for the people involved to be tried by jury. Anything further would be overstepping his remit, he cannot present the evidence before a trial as it's prejudice it.

The evidence may also compromise intelligence agency or gathering.

If Stone, Manafort indicted/jailed for dealing with the Russians & Flynn, Gates given easier sentence for cooperation in other cases then something is afoot.

This isn't over by any stretch.

Russia definitely interfered in the US election
Surely this alone is big?
Now that the report is out there is no question that a foreign power interfered with the election therefore trump's presidency is not legitimate?

www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/03/mueller-report-leaves-one-key-question-unanswered/585625/
Good news, America. Russia helped install your president. But although he owes his job in large part to that help, the president did not conspire or collude with his helpers. He was the beneficiary of a foreign intelligence operation, but not an active participant in that operation. He received the stolen goods, but he did not conspire with the thieves in advance.

This is what Donald Trump’s administration and its enablers in Congress and the media are already calling exoneration. But it offers no reassurance to Americans who cherish the independence and integrity of their political process.

The question unanswered by the attorney general’s summary of Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s report is: Why? Russian President Vladimir Putin took an extreme risk by interfering in the 2016 election as he did. Had Hillary Clinton won the presidency—the most likely outcome—Russia would have been exposed to fierce retaliation by a powerful adversary. The prize of a Trump presidency must have glittered alluringly, indeed, to Putin and his associates. Why?

It might be for a court to decide if there was collusion.
If it gets there. It might not get there now, but it may well get later.

It was hard to hear this yesterday. I think we need to see the report, but it's disappointing that so far, Trump is able to claim victory. For what it's worth, I always thought it was unlikely that Trump (and his close family) knowingly colluded with Russia - I suspect they were more willing but ignorant recipients of the aid.

However, on the obstruction of justice, it seems so obvious. If there were an investigation into me, and I had the power of a president, and I were regularly making public statements that it was an illegal witch-hunt, surely that has to be obstruction of justice?

Surely this validation will only shift trump into full-blown pathological batshit grandiosity, he must think he now rules the entire cosmos, he's bound to lose his head completely and utterly ....isn't he?

Hear. Probably. Except I think 'winning' already took him 99% down that particular road.

A similar situation was happening with Bill Clinton and his sex scandal. So much wasted resources, just because he was a Democrat in an election that the Republicans should have won (GHWB never got his second term). Clinton ended up lying to the FBI about the affair, which, long story short, led to him being impeached by the lower house. It wasn’t confirmed by the Senate (which would again likely be the case with DJT if impeachment proceedings went through the House and to the Senate).

If they were after real collusion, there’s the strange case of Kushner and delay of
the UN Israel vote during the transition .... but we know that TPTB don’t really care about it

Musuem, I think this part of Barr's letter is relevant:

In making this determination, we noted that the Special Counsel recognized that "the evidence does not establish that the President was involved in an underlying crime related to Russian election interference," and that, while not determinative, the absence of such evidence bears upon the President's intent with respect to obstruction.

Every time I read Barr, I notice more about how narrowly the letter is written.

For example,
"the evidence does not establish that the President was involved in an underlying crime related to Russian election interference,"
leaves open the possibility that the evidence does establish that the President was involved in some other underlying crime.

Obviously one can't draw the conclusion that it definitely does indicate another crime, and this narrowness might just be good practice in legal writing.

Trump and his base will just bulldoze over the complexities and nuances of the report and reduce it to simple black-and-white terms that are easy to grasp

Greg Stohr
‏*@GregStohr*
BREAKING: Supreme Court rejects mystery company, won't hear Mueller-related appeal over grand jury subpoena.

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-25/mystery-company-in-mueller-subpoena-fight-loses-at-supreme-court

From *Ewe's link:

Mystery Company in Mueller Subpoena Fight Loses at Supreme Court
www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-25/mystery-company-in-mueller-subpoena-fight-loses-at-supreme-court

The U.S. Supreme Court turned away an appeal connected to Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s now-completed investigation, rejecting arguments from a mystery company that was trying to avoid having to turn over information to a grand jury.

The justices, without explanation Monday, left intact a federal appeals court ruling that said the company, owned by an unidentified foreign government, had to comply with a subpoena. The company, which refused to cooperate, faces fines that have increased by $50,000 a day and may have grown to well more than $2 million.