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Original poster

Why the the leavers so scared of a second vote?

725 replies

StrumALum · 16/12/2018 15:27

I don't get it.

The leavers were fed some lies, that much is obvious.

What I don't get though is that if the leavers are so sure of themselves then why are they so worried about a second vote? If it's 'the will of the people' then it will be the same outcome anyway.

Or are they panicking because now the lies (like the bus) have been exposed, people are now more clued up and they were relying on people not being clued up to get the vote through in the first place?

OP posts:
Caselgarcia · 16/12/2018 15:30

I don't think they are scared. Many believe it's undemocratic, we've have the vote. It just needs implementing.

Original poster
StrumALum · 16/12/2018 15:33

But some people voted on lies so giving them a chance to re-evaluate now the full facts are known gives them the chance for a fully clued up vote. Isn't that democratic, and fair?

OP posts:
ThereWillBeAdequateFood · 16/12/2018 15:34

It just needs implementing

When you say “it” do you mean Mays withdrawal agreement?

I think the leavers are scared of losing. It’s as simple as that. I know lots argue that having more democracy is somehow undemocratic but I don’t buy that.

LunaAzul · 16/12/2018 15:34

What happens if remain gets the most votes in the next referendum- do we go best of three then?

ThereWillBeAdequateFood · 16/12/2018 15:36

But some people voted on lies so giving them a chance to re-evaluate now the full facts are known gives them the chance for a fully clued up vote

Exactly. You decide to buy a house - get a survey done. The survey comes back with a shit load of issues, it seems sensible to have a rethink about whether or not you still want the house.

flowery · 16/12/2018 15:36

Because they’d lose

dinosaurglitterrepublic · 16/12/2018 15:36

What happens if remain gets the most votes in the next referendum- do we go best of three then?

How does that make sense. There was a vote in principle. Now the detail is known, it makes sense for another vote to take place. It isn’t another vote on the same thing.

Original poster
StrumALum · 16/12/2018 15:37

I think people have the right to have the facts before such an important decision.

The facts are now known, so people can make an informed choice.

OP posts:
Benjaminbuttonschild · 16/12/2018 15:38

I don't see why it would be 'best of three' if there was a second vote. Surely people are more informed now than they ever were. So it's more a case of saying now we know what a no deal or TMs Brexit would look like are sure you wish to leave at all. If remain won a second vote, the facts are already out there that no deal would be shite.

Benjaminbuttonschild · 16/12/2018 15:38

What dinosaur said.

IAteMyGrandma · 16/12/2018 15:44

Because we live in a democracy. We had a referendum, and voted. We have to abide by the result. We can’t just keep re-voting until one side gets an answer they like Confused

Original poster
StrumALum · 16/12/2018 15:44

You decide to buy a house - get a survey done. The survey comes back with a shit load of issues, it seems sensible to have a rethink about whether or not you still want the house.

^ This is a really good way of putting it.

Everyone, leave or remain, should have all the facts before they vote. Whichever way they go, why wouldn't they want that?

OP posts:
Deadbudgie · 16/12/2018 15:45

Because:

  1. It’s undemocratic, the question was asked, people based their vote on many different factors, the people gave their answer
  2. Would a second vote mean All relevant details, on both sides including probable future expansion of EU remit were disclosed - remember remain is not a vote for the status quo, it is a vote for a future the remain side were suspiciously quiet on
  3. If we set a precedent for reasking this question less than 3 years after the first vote, there is nothing to stop people demanding another vote in 3,6,9..... years time. If you think the uncertainty is bad now, can you imagine what it would be if membership to the EU went in 3year cycles? If there were another vote - what grounds would you have to stop the above voting cycle happening?
  4. It makes a mockery of people voting - we were told that if we voted out we would be coming out. What was the point
  5. There are people on both sides who don’t know what they were voting for, or based their vote on very narrow criteria. However, this happens in every vote, from Eu referendum, to the general election, to strictly and X factor. But that is their choice, they have a vote.
  6. Stating that one side lied isn’t really convincing. Most people know they lie, it’s hardly front page news

Take your pick

Original poster
StrumALum · 16/12/2018 15:46

We can’t just keep re-voting until one side gets an answer they like

I don't think they should. But I do think people have the right to be fully informed before such an important decision. Now the full facts are known.

OP posts:
Buttercupsandaisies · 16/12/2018 15:47

To be fair they should have provided the facts right in the first place!

Now we should just leave.

Both sides lied too!

The suspicious part of me thinks those in power don't want it to work and this is an attempt to manipulate the public into just going along with what those in the hot seats want

Pachyderm1 · 16/12/2018 15:47

Because they don’t care that they made their decision based on lies (because humans are hard wired to find it difficult to admit that they were wrong) and they know they would very likely lose.

A huge number of them would now vote to remain if there were a second referendum - they just wouldn’t admit to it.

RibenaMonsoon · 16/12/2018 15:49

The government spent thousands of pounds of taxpayers money sending out leaflets to every household. Detailing exactly what leaving the EU would mean and urging us to vote remain.
I still voted leave and would do so again. I am not scared of a second vote. It would just be undemocratic.

Confusedbeetle · 16/12/2018 15:49

Lets get real here. Both the leavers and the remainers had little idea of the full picture. If anyone mentions that bloody bus which had no impact, and in fact did not promise that money to the NHS...
The proposed new referendum is suggesting a ludicrous choice 1. Remain. 2, Mays Choice = remain or 3. No deal So this is- 2 remains and one of unknown catastrophe or not.
A whole load of the establishment machine have been working away in Brussels to ensure remain, producing the mighty weapon of Northern Ireland to the EU, what a gift. Tony Blair has been in there chipping away.
The sort of referendum that has been suggested could not be Brexit so many leavers would abstain, Hurrah you all won.
No, we are not scared, we are let down. Brexit has been scuppered by the powers, who says the "Haves " are no longer powerful. It is the big money that has shouted for this, not the very small voice of the people, many of whom are disadvantaged. Incidentally the Leavers have mostly kept a dignified silence and have not hurled insults and people who just happen to have differing views.
Leavers are not afraid of losing, we have already lost.
Anyone who does not think the EU is a bully should just look at the way things have been going recently. Of course, they want Mays deal. We will be in the same place but without a vote.
I read recently that referendum ensure division. Did that then. Want some more of that helpful stuff?? The Norway plus is no better

TSSDNCOP · 16/12/2018 15:49

I voted remain.

I really do think that if anyone thinks Leavers voted Leave because they thought the bus thing was actually true they’re kidding themselves.

If there was another vote, and i don’t think there should be, I agree that the next thing would be “best of 3”.

Icantreachthepretzels · 16/12/2018 15:49

It is never undemocratic to give people a vote. Such an argument is ludicrous and laughable.
They are simply afraid they will lose. And disaster capitalists like JRM stand to make a lot of money from Brexit - they are not willing to risk losing.

Deadbudgie · 16/12/2018 15:49

And as for people being more informed, well that is questionable, people have seen evidence of very poor negotiating, they are maybe more informed of the difficulties in trying to negotiate with the EU. But people are not more informed about the long term picture of leaving or if staying in the EU. Whichever side it went that picture would be very different to where we are now.

Deadbudgie · 16/12/2018 15:50

Very well said confused!

Original poster
StrumALum · 16/12/2018 15:52

that bloody bus which had no impact

A friends boyfriend voted leave based on that bus. No he isn't the sharpest tool in the box, but some people did believe it.

OP posts:
busybarbara · 16/12/2018 15:53

Because it's likely to be a three way vote. The leavers will be divided between two options and the remainers get one option so will certainly win.

Absentwomen · 16/12/2018 15:56

Who said leavers are scared,OP?

Of all the leavers I know, not one of them voted leave because of a sign on the side of a bus.

ThE referendum was a once in a lifetime opportunity for the UK to vote leave or remain.

I'm not sure which bit Remain doesn't get.