Why the the leavers so scared of a second vote?

[StrumALum]

I don't get it.

The leavers were fed some lies, that much is obvious.

What I don't get though is that if the leavers are so sure of themselves then why are they so worried about a second vote? If it's 'the will of the people' then it will be the same outcome anyway.

Or are they panicking because now the lies (like the bus) have been exposed, people are now more clued up and they were relying on people not being clued up to get the vote through in the first place?

[NameChanger22]

I voted remain. I campaigned online for remain. I wanted to put a remain poster in my window at home but I was a afraid I'd get a brick through my window, then I heard about Jo Cox and I was even more afraid. Project fear did not come from the remain side.

We need a second referendum, a fairer one this time. There is far too much at stake to not have one.

[HeresMe]

You cannot be saying what's problem with another vote if you are democratic, what people don't realise is votes cost money you keep doing them yes more money.

A lot of people kept saying democracy well if it had gone other way would you be happy keep having votes until it went to Brexit way, those same people would be disgusted.
People think a live a democracy we don't we live in a parliamentary democracy it's different

[gutrotweins]

I thought after all this time, most leavers would be at least a little bit clued up about the role of the EU and its effect on our security, environment, agriculture and trade (etc, etc), and how difficult it is to negotiate an exit, taking into account all these things and the NI conundrum.

So, I was at a meal on Friday, sitting with several people aged between 23 and 65, most of whom said they voted leave. The 'conversation' climaxed in one woman stating 'Well, I just voted to keep them out', to vigorous nods and murmurs of agreement.

For them, it was all about immigration.

I fear a second vote. The 'Leave' outcome has been promoted as 'the will of the people' (quite wrongly, IMO) and 'project fear' has become an accepted response to pessimistic forecasts. I blame that all on the media and ... umm... the people who dribble catchphrases to the popular right wing press.

I think the second vote will almost certainly lead to civil unrest as many leave voters will be unwilling to accept that it is democratic.

[bellinisurge]

@IAteMyGrandma it is increasingly clear that No Deal would be an economic catastrophe. If you don't think that , you need to explain why.
I am not slagging off Leave voters here (don't be so sensitive), I am slagging off No Deal supporters. If you can't see the difference, you should be worried.

[IAteMyGrandma]

@SweetSummerchild

I don’t trust what any politician has to say very much any more. We talk about having another referendum based on facts, not lies, but that’s provided we trust politicians to tell us the truth. Most of us end up doing our own research. My MP disregarded my concerns and says he will act according to his conscience and what he feels in his heart to be right - seriously!

[UnnecessaryFennel]

Then there is no reason for anyone to say that they, or the government, didn't know what post Brexit would look like is there?

Remainers did say how things would be post-brexit, over and over again, but kept being shouted down by Leavers yelling about Project Fear. It's Leavers who say 'no one knows what will happen so stop moaning'.

And if it was all pre negotiated why has Theresa May been running all over Europe trying to negotiate?

It's not 'pre-negotiated'. You asked about exit clauses - an exit clause doesn't mean a 'fully-sorted negotiation'. TM has been running all over Europe because she's in a complete no-win situation because Leavers want something that is impossible to provide. Cake, eat it, unicorns, cherry-picking etc etc.

[StrumALum]

HeresMe
You cannot be saying what's problem with another vote if you are democratic

But it's democratic to vote on facts isn't it?

Now the facts are known, it would be undemocratic not to have another vote surely.

[continuallychargingmyphone]

It was about immigration, I agree. However, the insistence that any hesitation over an unprecedented number of immigrants from Eastern Europe makes someone racist hasn’t helped matters.

I am pro immigration. I am anti uncontrolled immigration.

[Laiste]

Given a vote with full facts?!

How is that going to work? Who's 'facts' are going on the ballot paper? I don't know the full facts now. I try to understand the full facts but tbh i get bogged down with it all.

Do you really think there is a way to give the general public a fully informed vote on something as complicated as leaving the EU? I do not.

You can ask them in principal. Which is what David Cameron pushed on us. That was a big mistake as well.

[Onlyjoinedforthisthread]

StrumALum
Can I ask why you voted remain?

[Laiste]

Actually OP, if you could summarise the FULL FACTS here (and i'm not talking about rhetoric or opinion) in a way which is easily understood (and possibly even in a form which could be presented on a ballot paper) i'd be genuinely impressed and grateful.

[IAteMyGrandma]

@bellinisurge
I’m not being sensitive. You call me whatever you want - it won’t ruin my day. I’m just pointing out that calling remainers ‘bloody idiots’ and thereby dismissing them isn’t likely to help you. Nobody will listen to you if you insult them. It only entrenches them in their beliefs.

I voted Remain, by the way, so we’re not coming at this from totally different angles. Most other members of my family voted Leave - but we don’t get anywhere unless we can discuss things dispassionately and try to understand each other’s points of view.

[StrumALum]

Onlyjoinedforthisthread

I didn't vote for anything. I said upthread I live elsewhere in Europe. I listen to friends in the UK, and watch this car crash on TV.

Laiste
Given a vote with full facts?!
How is that going to work?

Simple. These are the facts and reality of the matter, do you want this yes or no?

[bellinisurge]

Sweetie, the idiots are No Deal supporters. I would have thought that was fucking obvious from my posts but if you misunderstood me, I apologise.

[IAteMyGrandma]

@continuallychargingmyphone

I agree. For most of the Leave voters I know, immigration was a big concern. But they’re not all nasty racists.

[Deadbudgie]

I’m still not quite sure (even though I raised the point earlier why we would end with just a second referendum and it would set a precendant to have a new one every three years or everytime the EU did something that the remainers hadn’t clearly set out would happen as part of their campaigning for the second referendum if they win. Also if a second referendum was held (A fair one not one that split the leave vote) and leave won again would the remainers actually accept that result - I highly doubt it! Because they are right and intellectually superior to every single person who voted leave.

[Weetabixandshreddies]

It's not 'pre-negotiated

Precisely but it should have been.

Politicians should never have joined us to things that we could not leave without causing situations like we are now in.

Basically what remainers are saying is that we are in too deep and there is no way to leave so we need to just put up with it plus except whatever is to come.

That's appalling.

[mummmy2017]

How the heck do you intend to push the brexit baby back into the EU womb..

[gutrotweins]

Sweden reintroduced border controls in 2015. It is possible to do within the EU.

[Laiste]

Simple. These are the facts and reality of the matter, do you want this yes or no?

What are they then? The simple facts. I'm asking.

[Justanotherlurker]

If the election had been for a person it would have been Re-run because of the proven funding irregularities.

It wouldn't, because if it did it would open up a whole raft of can of worms regarding funding in general.

Remember all the big money was supporting Remain, thats all the multinational businesses, banks etc. Also if we are to jump on Russia as the bogy man then it wont take long before people start pointing fingers at people like Soros.


I voted remain and I think there should be another vote, not as some want which is to try which is to split the leave vote but a basic in out again, it needs to be properly informed though as there is just as much ill informed repeating of clickbait headlines amongst some remainers that there is the brexiteers, I've seen so many prominent posters on these types of threads going through mental gymnastics being pro EU and pro Corbyn with regards to things like the banks saying they would leave if Corbyn came to power, or just on their usual anti-neoliberal tub thumping.

A new ref would make remain come out with proper facts about further integration etc, some Remainers would have to concede us following more european standards regarding access to benefits and deportations etc and leave would bust a few myths that are usually prominent in these sort of threads.

I think it would be a narrow victory for remain, but I think it would cause a longer term problem in the short term future, not just for the Tories as some hope, but across the board Labour will take a massive hit, although it would force Corbyn to come out with better statements such as europe is 7/10 etc

[IAteMyGrandma]

@bellinisurge

I apologise- I mistyped. Said remainers when I meant No Deal supporters.

Fucking obvious though, no?

[jane1956]

don't think we should have another vote strumALum because 1 have you seen how they are treating us? can you imagine if we go back tail between our legs please sir can we come back in..... they would charge us extra i am sure, and I do understand the implications Ilove sooty

[bellinisurge]

Supporting no Deal isn't a "difference of opinion ". It's economic suicide.

[Aeroflotgirl]

The remoaners have got their own way, the initial vote should be upheld. I wanted to leave the EU 20 years ago, no not because of immigration eye roll.