To be shocked that Mn has been branded a “hotbed of transphobia”

[Badmoonsarising]

BY Vice msgazine no less!

broadly.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/a3mn9k/mumsnet-uk-mom-forum-terf-transphobia-feminism

All

You talk about men what about transwomen. Would you feel comfortable if they had surgery and then used the female toilets.

Well that’s the thing isn’t it. For years and years women and transsexuals had an unwritten code that they could use our toilets. Now that trans woman literally means anyone who says they are a woman that code has been broken, to the detriment of transsexuals and women.

The crux of this is ‘what is a woman’

How would you define that?

What is a woman? At what point if ever does a man become a woman and why?

I find the wide eyed acceptance to literally believe everything men say without engaging brains quite pitiful.

Oh men, you want access to womens and girls spaces, yes by all means - how can we help?

For real?

slight leap of logic there?

I'm remembering why I stopped engaging with this totally irrational nonsense.

I’m quite new to the feminist pages and I’ve seen very few actual transphobic comments. Most of the critical comments aren’t about trans people themselves (unless it’s specific people who’ve made comments in the media) or any threat that they might be, the criticism is more about how the proposed new legislation could create loopholes for other people with actual bad intentions to access spaces that they’re currently banned from just by filling in a form. Also, tackling issues such as the pay gap, representation in politics, health issues, period poverty, FGM could be compromised if you can’t accurately report statistics. For example a big contributory factor of the pay gap is pregnancy and childcare but if suddenly people without female biology, who have been brought up male and achieved high positions in companies with large salaries are suddenly going to be included, this will skew the figures. One or two transsexuals will not have an impact, 1000s of people claiming to be women because they have self-identified as such is a different story.

slight leap of logic there?

Erm no leap of logic whatsoever.
What do you think self id means?

Erm no leap of logic whatsoever.
What do you think self id means?

Are you on drugs?

Transwomen have rights to dignity and safety, so I think every GRC feminist would support a campaign for 3rd spaces.

However, we need to retain single sex spaces in situations where women are particularly vulnerable,
because men commit 98% of sexual offences and 85% of other serious offences
Transwomen are biologically men and never can be women

Historically, the creation of single spaces has been a major step in the liberation of women
They remain essential for our safety and comfort, for as long as the problem of male violence remains.
So, we won't give up our single sex spaces

We must also keep womens sports as single sex
keep separate crime statistics for women & transwomen
separate statistics for income and achievements, such as reaching CEO level

This is just trying to find a 3rd way to help transwomen be as safe & happy as possible, without making the lives of women less safe and comfortable

Some trans supporters - and certainly Stonewall and the TRAs - find such views transphobic
That is where we keep disagreeing

Some trans supporters want to ban our views, particularly on MN; we don't want to ban theirs

It's astonishing how many people say 'But people won't just be able to sign a form and get a new birth certificate' - then seem shocked when you say What do you think self id means?

are you on drugs?

No I’m not.

What do you think self id means? If you obviously don’t think it means that any man can claim to be a women and be allowed unfettered access to women’s spaces?

How do you think people will be able to keep sexual predators out of female spaces if all they need to do it signs form?

Transwomen have rights to dignity and safety, so I think every GRC feminist would support a campaign for 3rd spaces.

Problem is, transwomen don't want 3rd spaces. They want our spaces.

It's astonishing how many people say 'But people won't just be able to sign a form and get a new birth certificate' - then seem shocked when you say What do you think self id means?

If you're talking about me, I'm not shocked by the question, I'm amused by the way someone can turn a totally unrelated statement / post around and create meaning or intention where there is none.

I’m the second generation of my family to have lived my entire life with female suffrage, the first to have lived my entire life with easy access to contraception, and my daughter will be the first to be born after the introduction of equality law.

I would say that she will be the first to live her entire life with equality law, but without recognition of her female sex that won’t be possible because without recognition of the sex based reasons that women suffer discrimination women will continue to suffer discrimination.

Nothing irrational about defining an oppressed group, although women have been called irrational hysterics for centuries. Gender stereotypes are harmful and I have no idea why in 2018 supposedly rational people want to endorse them.

It’s not unrelated.

Self id and giving access to women and girls spaces to men is completely related.

OP, YABU as it is increasingly clear that a growing faction on MN are proud pin-wearing WBW proponents.

What’s WBW?

I'm imagining the comments on a 1918 Mumsnet: "I do wish those ladies would act more ladylike and know their place. It is all getting rather boring and repetitive now".

Ive seen a link to that before to a page on Wiki, womyn born woymn

It has a section on how we exclude transwomen (they get the correct spelling) just because theyre trans.

Utter bollocks, theyre excluded because they are male.

If you're talking about me
No, I wasn't, dailyshite. I was commenting on Calvinsmam's post. And it's true. I've seen lots of people stunned into silence when they discover that self id means self id. Fill in a form, and it's done, you're legally the opposite sex.

Well if WBW means women born women then I think you’ll find it’s not
a growing faction on MN are (who are) proud pin-wearing WBW proponents. but most women everywhere.

I'm remembering why I stopped engaging with this totally irrational nonsense.

I'd love to stop engaging with the totally irrational nonsense that says people can change sex. But irrational or not, we have to fight it otherwise sex will no longer exist in law.

It will, of course, still exist in fact, since babies will continue to be made the same way they always were.

I often think about how painful it must be for transphobes to know they’re losing this fight. That no matter how hard they cling to their prejudices, the world is changing and their views are being consigned to the past.

Can you define transphobe please pachy?

Just make the rules/ laws sex based and not gender based

I'm remembering why I stopped engaging with this totally irrational nonsense.

So you think it is irrational to not want men in female spaces? competing against women in contact sports?

So..rational to have no sex segregation at all? So proving my point then?

en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/transphobe

Just make the rules/ laws sex based and not gender based

They already are. Men who tell women to 'suck their formaldehyde pickled balls' have already been changing the rules behind the scenes...

And now want the law changed.