Well, it’s happened... the trans activists have waded into the 8th amendment issue in Ireland

[AngeloMysterioso]

And are apparently pushing for the language in the repeal legislation to be “gender neutral”.

Quote from the article-

“Despite what some may believe, men can become pregnant too. There are tens of thousands of transgender men and non-binary people in Ireland who can conceive, and when speaking about reproductive healthcare, we must always be mindful of that.

“It’s imperative that newly written legislation uses inclusive language. By including this, trans men and non binary people will not hit legal barriers should they need to receive an abortion. By using the term pregnant people in new legislation, as well as protecting women, we are also protecting and respecting all gender identities should a crisis pregnancy occur.”

So. That’s nice. Thousands upon thousands of women have suffered, many have died, because of bullshit like the 8th amendment. And after fighting so hard for so fucking long and finally winning the right to bodily autonomy and reproductive rights, if the TAs get their way, we get to be referred to as pregnant people

I’m a bit of a TERF at the best of times but this is beyond fucking insulting. Savita Halappanavar wasn’t a pregnant person. Michelle Harte wasn’t a pregnant person. Sheila Hodges wasn’t a pregnant person.

If the TDs capitulate and let this happen I will be really pissed off.

Ereshkigal it is possible to surgically make a penis, I saw the op on tv, they take it from the persons tigh, or grow it on the thigh or something. Usually, Transmen use a prosthetic penis.

That is awful Caribou, I am glad the homeless women are taking legal action, hopefully it will force women only shelters to refuse transwomen. Why are there communal showers, how undignified. I thought a shelter would know better.

The surgery to make something resembling a penis is still not great. There are high chances of complications and many don't look that great. So in the UK only 3% of women who say they are men opt for a penile construction.

So my reading of it (I am not legally qualified ) men are and were never barred from getting an abortion.

That's one way of reading it.

@strongmummy - typical DARVO. Deny deny deny.

I am so far past peak trans I need a new word.

Welcome to world of being gender critical. Where words have meanings and biology trumps belief.

it is possible to surgically make a penis, I saw the op on tv, they take it from the persons tigh

Yes. It's not really much of a convincing simulation.

Ereshkigal it is possible to surgically make a penis, I saw the op on tv, they take it from the persons tigh, or grow it on the thigh or something. Usually, Transmen use a prosthetic penis. I accompanied a friend for his last op, finishing his penis. That must be about 10 -12 years ago! They took skin from the inside of the forearm, it has no hair follicles, and had used that to envelop his urethra (tad hazy there, sorry). He has a saline pump in his stomach, it is manually pumped to give him an erection.

It works quite well, according to my ex boss, his long time partner, who has never been gay, has been married, gave birth, etc

That’s awful and not a surprise Caribou. Yet women in the U.K. are terfs for suggesting the same would happen here.

Warning: phalloplasty

Trans men can get pregnant and need an abortion because if they haven't yet had surgery or hormones they're at risk of perhaps through rape.

Which only highlights to me how vulnerable our biology makes us and how there's no easy way out identify out of that vulnerability. What's tragic is that trans men are choosing to quibble about wording rather than stand with their cis sisters

*pregnancy

Girl
I agree with the sentiment. I suspect that this is not led by trans men. The term “cis” is used to define us. Biological female / natal female.

*Trans men can get pregnant and need an abortion because...

....they are biologically female.

Yeah I don't normally use cis but I was worried I would lose clarity without it.

I was wondering whether it was the actual trans men doing the quibbling....it would make more sense if it wasn't. TRA s tend to be trans women normally right?

Pratchet what the actual fucking fuck? What is wrong with you??

Kinda my point terfsup! Impossible to identify out of biology. ...or at least very difficult

Pratchett Yes! And I can report that the repaired arm has very little scarring. Which, given what that picture shows they have do to harvest the necessary skin, is quite remarkable!

Give me ONE example where young girls or women have been abused by a trans person. One example. You can’t

I can.

transcrimeuk.com/category/sexual-offences/rape-sexual-assault/

Trans people are just that, people. A collection of individuals.

They are not an homogeneous, uniquely virtuous group. You can't possibly vouch for them all, and some will inevitably commit crimes, of which a number will be sexually motivated.

I'm relieved, Curious!

Yeah I don't normally use cis but I was worried I would lose clarity without it.

The only reason that happens is because people with an agenda have obfuscated the language in a manipulative way so it's difficult when walking on eggshells to say what you mean without it.

How ironic would it be if the upcoming legislation on abortion meant that the self identity legislation was exposed for the sham and the enormous can of worms that it is.

Iirc, it passed with virtually no debate, no criticism, and no inspection whatsoever.

Seriously, if I were a TRA I would keep my trap firmly shut here, because the shrill shrieking about 'pregnant people' is going to result in a lot of questions being asked and maybe a good deal of a rethink. One can hope anyway.

I don't think we need gruesome pics like that, it'll just get seized on by TRAs. Any more than I needed to see aborted foetuses to formulate an argument in favour of legal abortion. This isn't about the experiences of "trans men", it's about whether their experiences justify removing the word "woman" from legislation around abortion.

Still haven't had anyone enlighten me as to why men's health is left alone

Seriously, if I were a TRA I would keep my trap firmly shut here, because the shrill shrieking about 'pregnant people' is going to result in a lot of questions being asked and maybe a good deal of a rethink. One can hope anyway.

Yes, exactly. They haven't got the self awareness to realise that though.

Is it gruesome? I must have taught physiology for too long, I was fascinated by the clarity of the tendons, muscles etc