Partner on wards after birth - part 2!

[CherryChasingDotMuncher]

Wanted to continue this discussion as someone asked about stats re impact of visitors on wards.

I doubt there's stats anywhere (can't find anything with a quick Google anyway) but ask yourselves, why are visiting times the NHS over generally kept to a few hours a day? Because it's disruptive for the ward and patients need rest, and it can be a huge infection prevention risk. This is no different for maternity.

Original Thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2790704-About-partners-on-the-ward-after-childbirth

Not at all preloading the discussion there Cherry.....

Cherry, patients on other wards are not expected to look after their children at the same time. Totally incomparable.

So Cherry your suggestion is to limit visiting for the other partner to a few hours?

On my sons surgical ward visiting is 10-8 minus two meal times and not that strictly enforced. Clearly parents is 24/7.

Nice neutral start there cherry!

When I first gave birth 93 and then 95, men were allowed in when they could and all of them never stayed more than two hours. I was in for my first for 5 days due to me needing an MRI. There really isn't much to do with a newborn, they tend to sleep a lot. I've had three births, my second, I was out the next day in a large four ward bed that had only me!

My third though was several years later in 2001. What a change. Thankfully I had a private room. The wards were full of men and children from 8.00am. They stayed all day, until 10pm and once the police were called in, a man decided that a maternity ward was the place to start shouting at his partner who had just given birth. I couldn't believe the change. I had to stay for three days because my son had scored lowish on the apgar score.

I'm so pleased that I no longer can have children.

OP, you can certainly discharge yourself after an ELCS post 24 hours, especially if a singleton and breech.

Also for someone who is so sure that having partners on the ward will reduce professional care and make things worse, a quick google isn't really that convincing!!

Patients on other wards don't have a newborn that poops 4 times an hour and needs feeding every 30 minutes.

After a crash section and major complications with DC2, I don't know how on earth I could have coped without DH there for the night. DC1 I'd have been fine.

Quoting a huge chunk of MadsZeros excellent post from the other thread:

For some women feeling safe means having a loved one to help and not being left with strangers at the most vulnerable point in her life.

I completely understand this need is in opposition to the needs of other women to have a female-only space (or at least such a space for a portion of the day). But ultimately choosing either side damns one group to harrowing emotional and psychological experiences.

I agree with this 100%.

We need to facilitate both those that need a women's only space to feel safe and those that need their baby's other parent with them to care for the newborn and assist them while they are a patient.

All women deserve privacy and dignity (not just from male strangers, but all strangers) if they are in hospital after birth. They also deserve the support and help of those they choose (whether that is a partner/family member or staff member).

So Cherry your suggestion is to limit visiting for the other partner to a few hours?

No I was making the point of why visitors all day and night round weren't generally a rule.

Cherry, patients on other wards are not expected to look after their children at the same time. Totally incomparable.

Which is why 12 hour visiting makes sense rather than the usual 2 hour. I don't believe it warrants 24 hour visiting.

Also for someone who is so sure that having partners on the ward will reduce professional care and make things worse, a quick google isn't really that convincing

So so sorry what did you expect me to do, in depth research in 5 minutes flat, I have a life to lead as well!

Not sure why I have to be neutral when it's a continuation of an ongoing discussion. I'll report my OP though I forgot to link to the original thread

I needed my other half there. Needed him. The curtains were round our bed and we were quiet. I would have been terrified if he'd left me after an EMCS and feeling emotionally and physically drained I wouldn't have been able to do it without him. He had rules as did everyone else.

I realise there are difficult men out there. There are difficult women too. If I hadn't had him with me I'd have really struggled. Plus he had the right to bond with our child too.

Why does the first post have to be neutral? When is the start of ANY AIBU thread neutral?

We need to facilitate both those that need a women's only space to feel safe and those that need their baby's other parent with them to care for the newborn and assist them while they are a patient.

Yes. Private, en-suite rooms for all is the answer (and is doable in many countries). But as that doesn't exist and would take years to implement, what do we do for women who this is affecting right now? Both needs cannot be met. One 'group' needs to be given priority.

We need to facilitate both those that need a women's only space to feel safe and those that need their baby's other parent with them to care for the newborn and assist them while they are a patient.

I agree and many of us have said that a 12-hour visiting period is a good compromise - yet are being shot down for this. That's the difference - one side isn't willing to compromise at all

There's no easy answer to this though, is there? You can't tell people who feel uncomfortable with partners on the wards to suck it up, but you can't tell people who feel they need their partners there to suck it up either.

In an ideal scenario, there would be private rooms for all, but let's be realistic - it's not going to happen any time soon.

FWIW I think 12 hour non-stop visiting period is far too long. I said on the other thread that they have the rule in my hospital and the woman next to me's DH was there the whole 12 hours (more if he could get away with it) and he was so close I could have patted him on the head. Awful when you're having a discussion about your vagina every 2 hours with someone and you're trying to breastfeed, not burst into tears and are pissing yourself or bleeding into the floor. In 'my world' I would rather than 12 hours it with a 2-hour gap. However it's not my world so I'd be happy to say 12 hours non stop as I understand that for some having their DP there for as long as possible makes a difference to their care. I'd also happily forgo the opportunity of a private room to let someone desperate for their DP with them to go in it.

But others want their DH there, 24:7, no matter how many others would hate it, they are fine with other men so I must be, that's that and the rest of us have to get over it or get therapy apparently.

The only answer to this are individual rooms. Guess that won't happen.

No green, I actually think better maternity care is doable without everyone having private rooms. CQC rate many maternity wards as outstanding - these wards face financial and staffing difficulties like everywhere else, I wonder what are they doing which is so good that elsewhere seems to be lacking? And why aren't other trusts learning from the best?

Is there no way that each maternity ward could have a couple of single "holding rooms" so that women who give birth at night can have their DPs stay with them until they are admitted to the ward once visiting hours have started??

Others want their DH there, 24:7, no matter how many others would hate it
Where else in the whole NHS do you get exactly what you want all of the time??

Why have the rules on having partners to stay got to change at all??

a 12-hour visiting period is a good compromise

Forcing exhausted and sick women to be sole carer for a newborn for twelve hours shortly after birth doesn't seem like a 'compromise' to me. It seems like throwing struggling women under the bus because you were ok (because the midwives let your partner stay).

In the mixed sex ward I recently started on, there were 'male bays' and 'female bays' (with 6 beds per bay). As a stop gap measure couldn't post natal wards be similarly divided into areas for those who want to be female only for large portions of the day, and those that want their partners support/and to be caregiver to their baby?

I still think we should be campaigning for proper privacy for women after birth.

Persian that does sound ideal. I don't actually cherish the thought of men going home at silly o clock (and of course would never object to them coming onto the ward to kiss goodbye to their wife etc, I just don't agree with it being treated as a visiting time).

More than ever all Trusts need a single policy for things like this. The way Trusts do things right now are so slapdash. Even the way their procurement is set up - I know some Trusts have rigid procurement processes with specific expensive suppliers that cost taxpayers an arm and leg and others let staff get pens and such like from B&M bargains (sorry I digress!). I'd be happy to fight for that. Good healthcare should not be a postcode lottery!

Anyhoo for those interested, I think the males on wards topic has got very heated and i mentioned on another thread starting a new thread asking about women's experiences of postnatal care in general - good and bad. I'll do this later when DD is in bed, i think it's probably time better spent than going round in circles!

How do you think we managed not that many years ago?

On reading these threads I am glad I gave birth 30+ years ago from the aftercare point of view.

We had sufficient staff on the wards. Visiting was 2 hours in the afternoon, no more than two to a bed. Fathers only for 2 hours in the evening.
Rest times were strictly enforced and we were in for 7 days.
By the time I had nos 2 and 3 we were only kept in for 2 days if birth was straightforward but the times were still the same on the wards. And you got some proper rest. You can't sleep properly with a ward full of people. It was curtains shut and no talking!

My husband bonded with his children just fine. He had to be home with the older ones when I had the younger anyway, we had only friends to help as I gave birth.

All day visiting is tiring as I've seen with my DGC being born. However I also don't like the way new mothers can go home so soon, I think they need more midwife care not less.

More money needs to be put into maternity, but for staff not private rooms for fathers to stay over.

Forcing exhausted and sick women to be sole carer for a newborn for twelve hours shortly after birth doesn't seem like a 'compromise' to me

Then what do you suggest as a compromise for women who don't want to sleep next to strange men? I know on the other thread you (and sorry if it wasn't actually you who said this!) you gave an answer but in no way was this a compromise, it was a justification about why you think there should be 24/7 visiting hours.

It comes back to the same point. If you happen to have your baby at the beginning of the 12 hour period, great. If you have the bad luck to have your baby in the wrong 12 hour period, suck it up.

Yeah, I'm talking to you, tiny little one hour old baby whose mother physically can't attend to you. You suck it up and have your first hours in the world hungry/covered in shit/crying in your cot. Serves you right for not being born during Cherry's 12 Hour Visiting Period, or in her hospital that could spare delivery rooms so she could have her partner with her. No no, no complaining, you're being selfish...

I know some Trusts have rigid procurement processes with specific expensive suppliers that cost taxpayers an arm and leg
Lots of public services are like this.

Slightly different but when we went to the tip the other day we asked one of the guys where he got his broom from and he said that the council supplied them and that they cost £30 + VAT.

Later that day we found pretty much exactly the same broom in a local shop for £8.

Why do our councils and the NHS insist on wasting OUR money??

More money needs to be put into maternity, but for staff not private rooms for fathers to stay over
Absolutely.