Partner on wards after birth - part 2!

[CherryChasingDotMuncher]

Wanted to continue this discussion as someone asked about stats re impact of visitors on wards.

I doubt there's stats anywhere (can't find anything with a quick Google anyway) but ask yourselves, why are visiting times the NHS over generally kept to a few hours a day? Because it's disruptive for the ward and patients need rest, and it can be a huge infection prevention risk. This is no different for maternity.

Original Thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2790704-About-partners-on-the-ward-after-childbirth

So a new dad can only visit his child for a could hours a day, I value my husband more than that why should he sit at home and be away from his newborn?

Because most are at work so they can save their paternity leave for when the baby is home, surely?

And the father's 'need' is not more important than that of the other women who have just given birth.

Given being apart for a few hours won't affect bond, maybe for non-bf babies, they could go home with dad as soon as they are fit to be discharged. The dad's wont be immobile and in pain, and it gives mum the chance to sleep. From an equality perspective, maybe this is a good option?

Given being apart for a few hours won't affect bond, maybe for non-bf babies, they could go home with dad as soon as they are fit to be discharged
I thought about that as well but I think that most NHS trusts would be loathe to have a policy like that as it goes against all of their BF policies.

Also a lot of the time when a stay on the PN ward is necessary the baby needs to be monitored just as much as the mother.

Bluesky I don't see why not, if the mother is happy to do so, and the baby can be discharged.

Re the genuine privacy - thinking off the cuff, I think a really good start would be to stop making women get their own bloody food from the dining room or corridor.

I didn't know his happened and when they told me to get my own I thought they were taking the piss. I thought "do people with broken ankles also have to walk for their food? You've either had abdominal surgery or an 8lb person has come out of your 10cm vagina and they expect you to walk with a tray!"

I actually couldn't feel my legs because of local anaesthetic not worn off so couldn't walk if I tried and I actually had to argue with the HCA to bring me my food. I'll admit a got a touch arsey and said "well I physically can't fetch it so unless you bring it to me I won't eat". She did eventually.

By day 3 I could (only just) walk again and was bleeding like crazy. I was so paranoid that I'd get a blood patch rush to my bum while standing in the 15-women deep queue. And yes the visitors/partners presence made it worse, because it meant more people would have seen. The only reason I did it was because the MW wouldn't agree to discharge me within 48 hours unless I went up for food on a few occasions, and I wanted to get away from the noise and conveyer belt of patients in and out.

I don't know about anyone else but having the rule like any other ward and having food brought to patients would have made a genuine difference to my privacy and experience

Maybe hospitals with enough single rooms to spare should allocate those to women who don't have a partner staying with them (assuming nobody else has more immediate need, of course). Then women who do want their partners staying can stay on the shared wards, paying a fee for the extra resources their partner is using.

(I doubt many hospitals have enough single rooms for this to work but it's an idea, given so many people aren't bothered about shared wards as long as their Nigel gets to stay on theirs...)

It is shocking that you are expected to go and get your own food. Because birth is natural innit, so you don't need any care... #sarcasm

Much more vulnerable than with unknown women

So because you don't feel vulnerable surrounded by women, the feelings of people who do don't matter?

partner can have 12 hours a day visiting time to "bond" with the baby. Plenty of time I think.

How much time you think a baby needs to bond with its parents isn't really relevant to other people, though, is it? We all make different parenting decisions. You might be perfectly happy having your newborn taken away for twelve hours after birth but I wouldn't be (I'd allow it if it was medically necessary, but I would consider it harmful to my child). Why should your feelings on what is best for my child override mine?

How are you supposed to combine tray carrying with also wheeling your baby with you in the wheely cot? That seems impossible to me!

When DS was born DH could be there from
8am to 10pm. I dreaded him leaving every single day, to the point where from about 9.30pm I was fighting back tears. I had a difficult labour and dislocated my coccyx which meant that sitting or lying was agony and I just couldn't feed or comfort our son properly without being in pain. Having DH there overnight would have made our first few days such a different experience.

We were in a private room - I really don't see how him being there would have impacted anyone else, positively or negatively.

On my PN ward we had to troop up and get our own meals too, although they kicked all partners out for mealtimes so at least it was a bit more peaceful. Babies stayed behind - a HCA or student midwife watched them.

Apparently this policy was "to get you moving" and "to get you talking to the other ladies". Not clear why this matters on the PN ward, but hasn't on every other ward I've been on...

We were in a private room - I really don't see how him being there would have impacted anyone else, positively or negatively
This discussion is about having men staying overnight on PN wards with other women NOT in private rooms.

I don't think any one would have any issues with DPs staying in private rooms with a mother and baby.

Yeah, men staying in private rooms wouldn't be a problem for me at all. I just don't want 24/7 partner visiting in shared rooms.

"So because you don't feel vulnerable surrounded by women, the feelings of people who do don't matter?"

Not what I said at all. All I was doing was attempting to explain why I feel the way I feel (and presumably others feel similar to me).

"How much time you think a baby needs to bond with its parents isn't really relevant to other people, though, is it? We all make different parenting decisions. You might be perfectly happy having your newborn taken away for twelve hours after birth but I wouldn't be (I'd allow it if it was medically necessary, but I would consider it harmful to my child). Why should your feelings on what is best for my child override mine?"

The NHS surely has to provide the best service it can to everyone. Prioritising fathers bonding over patient privacy and dignity seems wrong to me. Clearly it doesn't to you. As it happens both my children were "taken away" from me for hours after birth, within seconds of being delivered via EMCS. DS1 I didn't see again for about 36 hours. DS2 I was a bit more fortunate and saw him again after about 6 hours, although he was much more unwell so I couldn't do very much bar stroke him through the incubator portholes. I wasn't "perfectly happy" about it, but it was what it was, and it hasn't had any impact on my "bonding" with either of them.

I agree with the post Nanny Ogg made above. I only had to stay in with my first baby (for 6 days). Visiting was restricted to 2 hours in the afternoon and 2 hours in the evening, which meant that we had time to rest, medical/nursing care was done in private without patients sitting in the next bay (obviously excluding emergency situations) , and any mothers who needed help caring for their babies were given it, by the staff.
I would hate to have to stay on a post natal ward nowadays. For a start I would flatly refuse to breastfeed if I wasn't allowed to draw the curtains around me. Some women don't do public breastfeeding, and why should they?
I also can't imagine why my husband would have wanted or needed to sit on a maternity ward 24/7, given that I had no complications and there was nothing to actually do, apart from breastfeed, change the baby and put him down in his cot. It was boring for me, god knows what he would have done with himself.
My sister has just discharged herself from a medical ward against medical advice - why? Because it was open visiting and the number of visitors were driving her mad. Some people have absolutely no consideration for patients and the fact that they are in a hospital, not a social situation.
Can just imagine how much worse it would be on a maternity unit where there are also other people's babies crying, to add to the stress even more.

I wasn't "perfectly happy" about it, but it was what it was
I expect that you knew that they had to be taken away for their medical treatment and you made the best of the situation......and then moved on without fretting about it.

After I'd spent 3 hours pushing (most of my labour period) plus the odd sensation of a male dr stitching there (no pain but you can feel the thread moving which is freaky as anything) I really didn't care who saw or heard what - and would prefer total strangers to hear than my family because it's utterly meaningless to them.

But then I'd had a transfer from one end of the hospital (MLU) to consultant led when we had meconium in waters and I'd been in labour without pain relief for 2 hours about 90 minutes of which was in the car after being sent home and then coming straight back in (went from 2cm to 7cm i that time) so I really was just do what needs to be done (with added expletives).

I couldn't care less if a smear was done in a curtained area in the middle of a shopping mall - just get it done with a degree of understanding and skill. Again better that than with people I know.

Luckily there was no time for an epidural - just simple vb - apart from meconium we'd never have gone on the ward I think and I had a few hours to get organised and work out how to get DD back in the cot after feeding. But the night was hell - she basically woke up 12 hrs post birth and needed to feed and I couldn't stay awake to feed her so I had to have the bed side up.to lower the risk of dropping her if I slept (MW decision) and feed as much as possible. But I was convinced I was going to drop or suffocate her. And I had an easy time of it compared with most.

Having DH to help cope with our first attempt at a nappy was so useful - we still got poo everywhere though - had no idea how much a newborn can wriggle! And obviously thought she was more breakable than she is...

Plus she was vomming up meconium snot and bloody snot which was freaky too - so that night was hard. At home we'd have done shifts.

I also felt guilty every time I had to buzz the mw for anything because it wasn't a clinical need just me having zero core strength and zero baby handling experience!

I couldn't care less if a smear was done in a curtained area in the middle of a shopping mall - just get it done with a degree of understanding and skill. Again better that than with people I know
You are lucky to be able to feel that way and I think that you are probably in the minority.

random you really wouldn't mind at all if an errant child whisked the curtains open mid-smear to full view of hundreds of shoppers?

I think a really good start would be to stop making women get their own bloody food from the dining room or corridor.

Absolutely agree. Can't believe they even do it. Madness.

Being brought food is not perfect in my experience - the first day you eat food someone else wanted, the last day you order for a stranger, one morning I was 'missed' (due to having the only dozy sleep I got in 5 days) and was told I had to wait till lunch, another day they lost my order (but they did eventually find me some random stuff for lunch and dinner).

But it's still better than expecting patients with wildly varying levels of mobility to go get their own food.

I think post natal could be improved by

Recognising mothers and babies are patients and are entitled to the same level of medical care as every other patient in thr hospital

Postnatal wards need to be staffed as post surgical/ general medical wards. There should be a consultant and medical nurses available 24/7 as it's a 24/7 ward. Postnatal patients should be regularly monitored and buzzers should be answered quickly.

Women with mobility issues should not be expected to get their own food, drinks and medication. Hca to be available to help with practicalities and babies.

All mothers and babies to be treated with dignity and respect. No one should be left in piles of wee or blood, health concerns are taken seriously, prompt and effective pain relief is available and not withheld or watered down, mental health is taken seriously and not used as an excuse to ignore or belittle women.

Partners do not stay overnight on wards unless all women have someone with them or agree to it without duress. Partners are recognised as moral support and are not used to fill gaps in services. A code of conduct is adhered to and security used to remove visitors that are unable to stick to it.

Bluesky I don't see why not, if the mother is happy to do so, and the baby can be discharged

If I can't get a private room where he can stay, I'll have to do this. I'm terrible with pain, and quite pathetic when ill, and there'd be no way I could safety look after a child. I'd much rather we all stay together, but if not, child's welfare will dictate going home with dad each night. It's sad to think about though :-(

After DD's birth it felt like the whole world had seen my bits - they're hardly attractive so yes I really don't care - it's not like my face would be visible as well so not dignified but not really identifiable long term!

Rules on this changed in my area in between the birth of ds almost three years ago and dd 16 months ago, men were allowed to stay by then and I was absolutely dreading it. Ds was born at lunchtime and I was moved up to the ward at 7 pm (needed lots of stitching), dp was allowed to come up , settle us in and then had to leave. It was a long and lonely night and I would have loved to have him there, however it would have been made worse by the presence of lots of other random men and whilst my dp is lovely, to every other woman on the ward he is just a random man.

No one is suggesting that very ill women are in sole charge of newborns- there should be mws to help
No one is suggesting babies should be left in shitty nappies screaming all night-there should be mws to help
No one is suggesting women should be left in pools of blood and piss- there should be mws to help

There should be better care. More money and better care.

Would I be happy about having a smear in a curtained off shopping centre? No I fucking would not. And I can tell you now that my dp, dad and nephews would not accept a prostate check u def those conditions either. What's wrong with saying that anything less than basic levels of care is unacceptable?

Oh DFO yourself, cherry - you are seriously overestimating yourself if you think the ward would be full of people desperate to earwig about your vagina! There's that dramatic tendency to undermine any decent point you might accidentally make showing itself again.

Honestly, I would not have felt any more safe or private had DP not been there. I would still have had umpteen strangers and midwives coming up and down and in and out of the ward 24/7. What I would have been was worried sick about the fact that I simply could not have looked after my baby in the state that I was in after a 24 hour failed induction and then a 3 hour wait and then a c-section. It would have been utterly traumatic for me to have to sit up and hold her after not having been to sleep for 48 hours and after major surgery - and after 3 weeks on the ward before that, so pretty much zero sleep for 21 days, because the pre-delivery room ward is fucking noisy as fuck 24/7! - or to leave her in her cot crying for 12 hours.

And even if I had been in a good state, I wouldn't have dared leave her to go to the toilet, for example - it took me 20 minutes to go for a wee when they took out the catheter, and it took me 10 minutes to shuffle to a toilet because there was a queue for the one on my ward! The midwives could not be expected to sit with my baby for all that time. But apparently I would feel safer and not vulnerable if I had to wait for a piss until DP was allowed to visit at 10am?!?!?