Partner on wards after birth - part 2!

[CherryChasingDotMuncher]

Wanted to continue this discussion as someone asked about stats re impact of visitors on wards.

I doubt there's stats anywhere (can't find anything with a quick Google anyway) but ask yourselves, why are visiting times the NHS over generally kept to a few hours a day? Because it's disruptive for the ward and patients need rest, and it can be a huge infection prevention risk. This is no different for maternity.

Original Thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2790704-About-partners-on-the-ward-after-childbirth

My first two babies were born in a central London hospital, hence me saying I got the tube! Twat! I had a 36 hour labour with my first.

But it's all about you. And if you had a CS, by whatever means, then you should get extra help, regardless if you were in central London or Timbuktu. But your husband being there 24/7 is not going to help.

d leave her to go to the toilet, for example - it took me 20 minutes to go for a wee when they took out the catheter, and it took me 10 minutes to shuffle to a toilet because there was a queue for the one on my warD

Yet you want more people on wards using more resources?

I'd also like to ask people in favour of men staying, where should the funding come from? For fold out beds, and the maintenance of them, extra energy used, more cleaning, more infection prevention measures, more water being used? People cost money when they are in hospital that long, I can think of a million better ways to spend the money.

That's to Temporary

This entire thread is stupid. Stupid people using stupid exceptions to paint all new fathers as rapists. It's sexism and discrimination at it's worst but as always MN won't do anything because it's aimed at men. Go do one OP

I have asked several times to see if examples of sexism against men on this thread but no one has come up with the golds yet, care to have a go? And when did I say all fathers were rapists I said 1 in 10 women have been raped in the U.K. Is it sexist to say that?

Seriously extrapolation is just wasted thread space, do one yourself with your fabrications and embellishments

I have a radical idea: change the culture that expects the new mother to care for the baby. She needs to rest and learn to bf, she has plenty of time layer to rock the baby and change nappies.

So staff wards on the assumption that everyone on them needs care. 6 mothers and 6 babies in a bay means you need enough nurses for 12 people. Use the same staffing ratio you would in any other ward, but apply it to mothers and babies.

Then women can rest and recover without their DPs being essential.

if he's behind a curtain visiting my baby he certainly won't be looking at other women and isn't a sexual predator.

Yes, I'm sure your partner is lovely. But some people's partners are not. And to the woman in the bed next to you, who doesn't know your husband from Adam, he's just a stranger who could be anyone.

My husband's lovely too. I can still appreciate why women who don't know him might not want to have him sit next to their bed all night at one of the most vulnerable times of their lives.

"mismims if he's behind a curtain visiting my baby he certainly won't be looking at other women and isn't a sexual predator. Gosh I don't know how you walk down the steet if you view all men that way."

bumplovin do you mean to sound so dismissive of other women's concerns? No one is saying that they think all men are sexual predators. Just that some women have very real reasons to feel very vulnerable and unsafe around men when they are in the post natal period. Some women would not feel safe sleeping in a room with unknown men. You would, that's not a problem for you, but for lots of women it would be. How can they be treated with dignity and respect?

It's such a shame an interesting and timely discussion has turned into an arguement about who had the shittiest time and why. No one should have to rely on a partner for medical care. No woman should be forced to sleep in the same room as men she doesn't know. It's just going round and round because people are understandbly upset about trauma they've suffered.

I have a radical idea: change the culture that expects the new mother to care for the baby
This isn't a radical idea at all as this is how things used to be.

But it is a brilliant idea.

mismims if he's behind a curtain visiting my baby he certainly won't be looking at other women and isn't a sexual predator.

Well if your husband isn't a predator well no one else's must be either

Can people engage their brains for a moment and not judge other people's DPs by their own lovely one? And also take the 1 in5/1 in 10/1 in 4 stat into account and ponder perhaps that women fear men because male on female violence and sexual violence is nothing short of an epidemic so many women will have been through horrific experiences at the hands of strange men. Therefore don't want to share their sleeping space on a vulnerable state with strange men.

Jesus is it that hard to figure out?!

No I didn't mean to sound dismissive but there just seems to be so much negativity around men- they are new fathers too. Im sure I will be annoyed by other people's husbands and feel a bit comfortable walking around when im bleeding infront of them but Id rather put up with them so that my own can be there rather than have limited visiting times and have to be on my own after a c section. Hopefully it will only be for a few days so Id rather just try to be tolerant of other people's partners so that they too can have their husbands there

Sorry uncomfortable

Right. So to sum up your point, cherry - your right not to have men around trumps other people's need to have their partner's support if they happen to need it in the middle of the night. But in making your statement, you are assuming that you'd be having the conversation about your vagina during the 12 hours when you would ban men from the ward. Which is funny, because if there is one thing you cannot control apart from when the baby arrives, it's when the doctor/consultant arrives. What are you going to do if the doctor comes to see you during the 12 hours you've allocated for partners to be there? Ask him/her to come back? Good luck with that!

I've accepted other people's partners being there. That's my compromise. I did say that about ten times on the previous thread, btw. I weighed up the two evils and for me that was the lesser.

The men weren't using the patients' resources. There were visitors' toilets and showers, although DP went home for a shower. As for the funding - he sat on a plastic chair at the side of the bed. Fold-out beds? Seriously?!?!?! Who is saying that they should be provided?

Elendon - Yes, of course the tube only goes to Central London. It doesn't go out to other places...... But that actually makes your patronising twattish comment about a cinema even more twattish, because you should know what they are like.

And no. It's absolutely not all about me. It's about the babies and the fact that they might be left without attention if the mother is alone and suffering. Lucky you, if yours didn't. I do, however, shudder to think what it could do to the risk of PND if you leave someone in the sort of traumatic situation that other posters have described.

Elendon -

Quite Handbag, I'm now here as I'm awaiting just one person to come up with a compromise for people who don't want to sleep in a room with 5 strange men at one of the toughest times of their lives.

But what if they can't have their husbands there, Bumplovin? Plenty of women are single mothers, or have partners who can't be there for whatever reason (like looking after older children).

Can you understand why those women aren't going to have a great time stuck on a ward with a bunch of blokes they don't know, where the expectation is that the hospital doesn't have to meet basic staffing levels because partners will make up the difference?

Great idea in restricting the hours for visitors on maternity wards. Just need to work out how to time deliveries so that all babies arrive in time for this visitor window. Need to be early enough for all the necessary checks to be done, but not so late as to miss the window!

I had to struggle with my third, DH had to go home and I had an unsettled little one who wanted to sleep on me. I was nodding off and I couldn't get into my prime sleeping with newborn position as I was sore with EMC (and still couldn't walk) I didn't want to keep buzzing the midwifes (mainly because of disturbing others who was sleeping) but if DH had been there he could've held/watched over me holding whilst I dozed.

There are curtains for privacy whilst feeding. Other womens' partners don't care about anyone else but their own mother and child twosome. You are there to have your baby and then you go home for the privacy! (plus many people have had their hand up you so who cares!)

Cherry, you have been provided with options time and time again. If they don't meet with your agreement, you simply pretend they dont exist. Both options being available in different bays would be the practical solution, and has been mentioned many times. Even my small maternity unit nearby could manage this.

Yes its possible that some women won't get their preference due to capacity, but it makes it far more likely that more women will get their preference. Like private rooms, a partners bay or a non partners bay can't be guaranteed, but can be requested. Some women will be in the 'wrong one' both ways, but that's why this is a compromise not a solution.

I am not saying they should sleep but a few hours after birth would be helpful!

So to sum up your point, cherry - your right not to have men around trumps other people's need to have their partner's support if they happen to need it in the middle of the night.

But your right to have 24 hour access forYour DH rather than 12 hour trumps my right to not have the trauma of strange men around?

But in making your statement, you are assuming that you'd be having the conversation about your vagina during the 12 hours when you would ban men from the ward.

Oh. My. God. Just stop fabricating.
That was what I actually experienced because the man in the next curtain (during visiting hours) was so very close, my point being having him so close 24/7 rather than just 12 hours would have been twice as awful.

What are you going to do if the doctor comes to see you during the 12 hours you've allocated for partners to be there? Ask him/her to come back?

I'd have a quiet discussion with them, and thank god that the bloke next door won't be within earshot the whole time I have to talk about my vagina/fart/cry/feed. Because I deserve respite from other people's partners, wether they are nice or nasty is absolutely irrelevant.

I've accepted other people's partners being there. That's my compromise

HAHA! That's not a compromise! I asked what's your compromise for women who DON'T want your partner there. "Well you can have yours too" is not a compromise, because not everyone has a partner, nor every partner wants to or can stay. Even so, did you think NHS policy was going to be made so only you, temporary could have your partner there? It's very good of you too extend this to others That's basically you finding a loophole to get your way. That's like me saying "my compromise is that I won't bring my own DH in"

What would be your compromise for women who don't want any partners there? Or do you just not give a shot as long as you're getting your way?

The men weren't using the patients' resources. There were visitors' toilets and showers, although DP went home for a shower. As for the funding - he sat on a plastic chair at the side of the bed. Fold-out beds? Seriously?!?!?! Who is saying that they should be provided

It's not rocket science. If there's a queue at the patient loo, people will go to the visitors loo. Having men overnight will extend all queues (and some men will still be twats and use patient loos)

53rdandabird I have friends who are single mums but I know they wouldn't expect other new fathers to miss out because they don't have a partner, that's quite an odd point to make

I would've struggled massively to cope without my DH being there due to crash section and complications I couldn't move left alone lift baby for feeding

If men are the problem why not ban them from all wards they are not patients in? Why just maternity? What about the single dad staying in the children's ward with his 8 year old?

Both options being available in different bays would be the practical solution, and has been mentioned many times. Even my small maternity unit nearby could manage this.

I have only seen this one option actually. Where are the other compromises?

I'd be happy to accept this as a compromise if someone could tell me whose needs come first should the wards need to be mixed? And I don't think it's fair to play the numbers game - ie "in this situation more people would lose out so X has to put up with it". Also, if a woman was wheeled in and forced to share a room with 5 men when she didn't want to, when she's in a groggy state she's far less likely to kick up a fuss than if the situation were reversed and a man had to be told to go home - people have already given examples of men shouting down HCPs to get their way. MWs don't have time to play teacher. In no way would this be a fair situation on any woman. It also doesn't solve the issue of what happens to the most vulnerable - the single mum's, DV victims etc

But 53rdandbird - you are basically asking people to care about hypothetical partnerless strangers more than their new baby and themselves, when they are feeling exhausted and beaten up after giving birth - is that really realistic?

I don't feel like my husband was "missing out" by not getting to spend all night on the ward after my EMCS, Bump. But even if he had been, I don't think his feelings take precedence over the need for women who are actually patients to have some dignity, privacy and get to feel safe while they recover.

You haven't answered my question - can you understand why women who don't have their DP there might not feel very comfortable having yours, a total stranger, around?