To not really understand why some people are so upset by transwomen using public toilets?

[MyGastIsFlabbered]

I'm sorry if this offends, but I really don't understand why this is such a contentious topic. I know transwomen and they just want to pop into a cubicle, do their business and leave. I understand that there is a fear of being attacked, but I honestly think if someone is of a mind to do that they'll do it whether dressed as a woman or not.

Diagrams don't work here it seems - but you can read the columns/rows easily enough

Yes not

Fully enclosed cublcles

I like those, they have them at our local shopping centre

Big enough for buggys and children and everything

Am amazed Danielle bothered to change their name. They don't have to. They can call themselves Daniel, look like Danielle does, have a penis and still be a woman.

Evergreen

Why would they not be safe in the men's if people with penises are no more dangerous than women?

but they want to live like women and they just happen to have a penis. I dont think that makes them male.

That's an interesting POV Evergreen. How would you define male and female?

Actually I think that theunworthy proposes a good solution and I will go with ghat

Are you a woman?

Yes. I am a woman and I have two children. One of them is transgender and not a rapist or a pervert or a "bloke in a frock" who has the sole aim in life of looking at fannies in the ladies' loos. There are a few isolated cases of people who claim to be trans for nefarious reasons but the vast majority of trans people just want to live their lives in peace. I can't claim to understand gender dysphoria, I'm not thrilled that my PFB is so distressed by her assigned gender that she wants to self harm. I'm not jumping for joy that her gender dysphoria has turned our lives inside out but I will fight for her and advocate for her and support her until my last breath.

I actually have no problem with it personally. I don't like the Caitlyn Jenner theory of womanhood at all (that the superficial frippery of femininity is the core of being a woman) but that has little to do with the toilet issue.

If a transgender woman goes into a male toilet then she's going to be made to feel very uncomfortable. If she lives her life as a woman and has put a lot of effort into that then it is harsh to keep reminding her that she will always be a man.

I'm still hoping for an explanation about why people with penises should be accepted in the ladies because they are absoloutely not dangerous.
And yet can't go in the men's because it's dangerous.

Anyone?

but the vast majority of trans people just want to live their lives in peace.

As do the vast majority of men. Doesn't mean it is appropriate to let men into womens spaces.

I have never seen that answered pag

I will go back to lurking with interest

Late to the thread.

I am presuming if it's a public loo and the trans woman is dressed as a woman, you'd be none the wiser.

Even if I knew, I cant imagine I would be too bothered. Toilet business is all very private for women - not much chance of seeing a willy in there.

If she lives her life as a woman and has put a lot of effort into that then it is harsh to keep reminding her that she will always be a man.

So women should move aside, women should lie, women should give up their spaces and potentially put themselves in danger so as to not be "harsh" to man who has chosen to identify as a woman?

Rrross1ges
Phew! Thanks for your voice of reason. Your experience of reason. Thanks

What? Transphobia on mumsnet? What a surprise?

OP - seriously - no good ever comes from these threads. It absolutely helps nothing and no one. I would honestly just step away and do almost anything else with your time.

Please stop it with yer logic Pag.

If anyone can actually link to some evidence of transgender women attacking cis women in the loos I might start taking the other sides argument seriously.

I am presuming if it's a public loo and the trans woman is dressed as a woman, you'd be none the wiser

Generally speaking MtF do not "pass" and would be noticed (although with more people transitioning before puberty this may change)

Serenpidity could you explain to me why for so many years we have had taken the time and the effort to have
Segregated toilet instead of unisex one
Segregated ward at hospital, instead of unisex one
Having the possibility to have a woman doctor rather than a male one to do a internal examination, rather than havig no choice
Segregated female and male prison rather than unisex one
Segregated dormitories rather unisex ones etc etc

Becuase really, in none of those instances, there should be an issue.
You arent naked in a dormitory. A doctor is a doctor, they are professionals.
Again in hospital, no one will see you naked, curtains are drawn if examinations are done etc...
So why is it that as a society, we have made so much effort???

evergreen

What's "living as a woman"?

Pagwatch that is indeed a puzzle.

Also why my right to safety is of less worth than a male person identifying as female.

pag someone will answer your question when mine regarding living as a woman gets answered.

Probably around the first if never

If anyone can actually link to some evidence of transgender women attacking cis women in the loos I might start taking the other sides argument seriously.

So you believe that there should be no sex segregated spaces?

Soz Exit.
But no one will tell me.
I am on here trying to learn how to bring forth the penis and learn why men's toilets are not safe and no one will help.