To not really understand why some people are so upset by transwomen using public toilets?

[MyGastIsFlabbered]

I'm sorry if this offends, but I really don't understand why this is such a contentious topic. I know transwomen and they just want to pop into a cubicle, do their business and leave. I understand that there is a fear of being attacked, but I honestly think if someone is of a mind to do that they'll do it whether dressed as a woman or not.

How do you know they have a penis? Post operative they don't, and what difference does it make, it's not like she's gonna show it to uou.

Honestly don't understand it,

Presumable the same reasons mums won't send their boys into male toilets or changing rooms.

I am Spartacus.

Beam me up Scottie

I'm going into hospital next week for a hysterectomy. It's a major op and I'm sure that afterwards I'll be feeling fragile and vulnerable. I want to know that the other people in the gynae ward are women. Not because I'm "phobic" of trans people but because I feel that women only spaces and wards should be respected.

I would have no problem with unisex toilets or trans people using the accessible loos.

*disclaimer - by woman I mean someone born female. I don't believe changing biological sex is possible.

Because they are still men, and men do not go into women's toilets, and vice versa.

Are we assuming all transwomen are rapists?

No.

However it is not a completely unbelievable that a rapist may well claim to be trans in order to access female facilities and target women that way. You don't have to dress up as a woman to claim you are trans and access female facilities so it's not like a rapist doing this would even have to make the effort to dress as a woman any more.

Personally, I don't feel comfortable with a penis in the next cubicle to me. I don't care if the person who owns it is wearing men's clothes, women's clothes or a space suit! If you own a penis you don't belong in the women's!

I feel a lot more comfortable using women's only toilets (and letting my dds use them) knowing it's only women (non-penis owners - in case you're in doubt) using the cubicles around me. I would not be comfortable or feel safe in unisex toilets.

Because instead of putting women at risk, yes at risk, maybe we should be sorting out separate safe spaces for trans women.

That is a solution that puts NO ONE at risk.

Plenty of reported incidents of women being attacked by men dressed as women in public toilets but I've yet to see cases of constant attacks on trans women in men's toilets.

I genuinely don't understand the logic behind these sorts of thoughts

Trans women are at risk of violence in men's toilets. So campaign for separate toilets. Better yet target those men who are actually doing the attacking.

What you don't do is allow trans women (who commit crimes at the same rate as men and still having the advantage of greater physical strength than women) in to a woman's public toilet.

I haven't thought too deeply about how it would work in prison, refuges etc but it really wouldn't bother me in a public toilet. I go in a cubicle, they'll go in a cubicle. I couldn't care less.

Personally I am much more worried by transwomen in other female only spaces, such as changing rooms, women's refuges. rape crisis centres etc.

If it is ok for a transwoman not to want to be in an intimate space next to a penis owner, then it is ok for a woman not to want to be in an intimate space with a penis owner.

I understand that there is a fear of being attacked, but I honestly think if someone is of a mind to do that they'll do it whether dressed as a woman or not.

Maybe I'm in the minority but when I'm in a public loo I don't take too much notice of who else is in there, a transwoman could be next to me and I doubt I'd even notice.

You just answered your own question.

If a man of a was 'of a mind' to attack women, would it be easier for him to do it by

b) presenting as a man in the women's toilets; or
c) presenting as a woman in the women's toilets?

Answers on the back of a fucking postcard.

Why do we have sex segregated toilets in the first place? I think if you can't answer that, then understanding why transwomen in the ladies toilets is unacceptable to many is going to be hard

They aren't still men, that's a wrong thing to say, someone who identifies as female, has transitioned, is legally female.

What about trans women who don't have penises?

When I have a smear test, I prefer a female nurse to do it for me. Specifically, someone who knows what it is like to have my anatomy. I like that I can request that, I would not want a transwoman performing the smear test.
Should I have that right?

Why would you see a transgender woman's penis in a ladies toilet? They're not getting it out and pissing in the sink are they? (If so... police?) Or are you spying on them as they go about their business? (If so... therapy?)

If a man can become a woman in the eyes of the law, then they are a woman. Therefore they can use women's toilets, women's changing rooms or whatever else they fancy.

Whether or not a man should be able to become a woman, or really can become one, is a different question entirely, and one that would get a great deal of hate-fuelled comment, I suspect.

Sorry if I'm being naive here. I'm quite weak physically, a strong woman could easily beat me up. Should muscly women have their own toilets too?

Because simply put, opening the door to transgender people opens the door to anyone that identifies as a woman and the includes any old weirdo that is not a woman or even genuinely identifies as one, but just wants to go in a womans place of privacy to exploit.

Where do you draw the line? I personally would be happy with male, female and mixed toilets where you can go in mixed and I can chose to go in female.

How many threads does there need to be on this topic op? Can you not just read the replies on the other threads. Personally I can see both sides of the argument but am fed up with all these threads saying the same things over and over and they always end up in a slanging match.

There's nothing wrong with it at all, transwomen have enough bloody troubles without being forced into using toilets for the wrong gender.

I can't imagine why anyone would think that someone who's gone to all the mindbendingly awful trouble of coming to the conclusion that they're transgender and starting or successfully finishing at transition process would want to start trouble with women in women's loos. They just want to go in, go, and leave. Maybe faff with hair. Same as every other woman.

I'm shocked the transphobic attitudes on show here.

ByeByeLilSebastian I guess the answer to that would be look at the crime stats

Are you more likely to be attached by a man (whether they are a trans woman or not) or a woman?

Non penis owners should be allowed to segregate themselves from penis owners if they feel the need to, especially for safety reasons. That's the crux of it.

Agreed.

Yanbu OP but alas MN will say you are

Those bleating about no penises, I assume you all send your little boys into the men's alone? No? Well they have a penis so they shouldn't be in a no-penis zone according to MN

iamamy I think you're right that the approach that someone can simply say they identify as a woman and therefore have to be treated absolutely no differently to a biological woman is very concerning.

For my part, if someone is living as a woman then I don't have a difficulty with them using toilets personally. I don't think those that do have a problem with it are transphobic though.

I might have an issue with a transwoman in a rape crisis centre, or a transwoman doctor if I had requested a female doctor. I sympathise with transwomen and their struggles but I don't think they can always be treated as though they are no different to a birth woman.

Are we assuming all transwomen are rapists?

No we are assuming that some men are rapists and as we don't know which ones are and which ones aren't so we allow sex segregation in places where women may be particularly vulnerable. It's to protect all women, despite some people being right on enough to 'not care' or 'not even notice'.