To not really understand why some people are so upset by transwomen using public toilets?

[MyGastIsFlabbered]

I'm sorry if this offends, but I really don't understand why this is such a contentious topic. I know transwomen and they just want to pop into a cubicle, do their business and leave. I understand that there is a fear of being attacked, but I honestly think if someone is of a mind to do that they'll do it whether dressed as a woman or not.

You draw forth the penis and are unafraid

Guffaw

Yanbu op. Tbh, I tend to think the whole transgender thing is rather odd, but I dnt care who is in the cubicle next to me. Why would I?

I still don't get how having people who to all intensive purpose look like men ( ftm ) in the ladies is better than people who look like ( mtf ) women

I struggle to understand that too

Going to have to look up what Anna lee is..unless someone wants to enlighten me

There is nothing more predatory in principle about a transwoman using a woman's toilet. If you go down that route, lesbians wouldn't be allowed in women's toilets.

Fucking Hell.

LESBIANS ARE WOMEN.

How do you not know how fucking offensive that is?

This week a lesbian couple and their son were murdered by a mtt transgender activist. Not a good time to say lesbians are predators and shouldn't be allowed in womens facilities. It's never a good time.

And before it's said, I've been raped....twice, but I'm still not bothered by the thought of a penis being in a toilet. - Well just because YOU'RE not bothered then no one else should be? is that right?

I too have never seen a penis unawares. Perhaps I'm doing it wrong

I still don't get how having people who to all intensive purpose look like men ( ftm ) in the ladies is better than people who look like ( mtf ) women

Because what they look like doesn't bloody matter - it's what they are that matters.

Yes it is but it's no worse than usual.

Hmm, that did actually sound like 'good' news for a second.

I'm finding some and buggering off to watch The Missing, though.

It's not how they look ffs.

And it's intents.

laurie

I guarantee my brother poses no threat to you whatsoever. Can he watch you shower?

Women commit a tiny proportion of crime, and an even more minuscule proportion of violent crime. Segregating men and women is enough to keep the vast majority of women safe in those spaces. TW are male and retain male patterns and levels of criminality. If you wouldn't let any man in you can't let TW in either.

Great posts, mrsglitterpants

Ftm still commit still commit violent and sexual crimes at the same rate as women. So not a lot.

No matter what they look like they haven't got a biological physical advantage or the male propensity for violence/rape.

And they have vaginas, so they can use the women's loo.

And in some scenarios, women pose a threat to female safety. There. Where does that get us?

Women at a population level, are far less likely to be violent than a male. They are also smaller, lighter, and weaker. Women simply do not pose the same risk as men.

I can't imagine why we've decided that trans women with no previous form for violence or aggression are the group to get our knickers in a twist about. That makes no fucking sense.

Because MtT commit crime at the same rate as all males. Because like all males they tend to be bigger, heavier, and stronger than women. Because some transactivists are demanding that spaces should not be sex segregated but (self identified) gender segregated - this is already happening.

midcenturymodern Apologies if I've offended you.
I think you read that differently to how I intended it.
I'm a lesbian (wink)

Hermione. No-one is watching me pee. I'm in a cubicle. There are walls. However, I am more than happy for your brother to watch me wash my hands and walk out the door. Send him round.

Your analogy is ridiculous.

I

Plenty of reported incidents of women being attacked by men dressed as women in public toilets

Can you link to these reports or stats Unworthy? I have seen this written many times on MN, but have never seen the reports. I have Googled, but it gave me no results.

theproblemofsusan
"Because they're not men. They were but not now"

Do you believe a man becomes a woman just because they say they are?

Do you accept Danielle is a woman?

Do people not understand or not want to understand?
Or are they only focussing strictly on toilets ignoring the bigger picture? :/

Well I have obviously missed all the other threads but for me they are women with penises fine, but they want to live like women and they just happen to have a penis. I dont think that makes them male.
I have no issue with them using our toilets and prefer that than forcing them to use the mens where they might not be safe.
My opinion.
I have yet to feel scared of a transgender

laurie

You can quite often see over and under cubicle walls

People have poked their heads under and over for various reasons

Because it isn't about using the toilet, the appropriate toilet use is a very minor point in a bigger debate, but pushed to the top of the agenda to make women look and feel unreasonable.

It is about women's wishes being marginalised, it is about our role as a "female" being made a stereotype to be appropriated. It is about pushing us further down the food chain.

It is about a homophobic reaction to difference, if you don't fit in the societal norms of gender, then there is something wrong with you that can be corrected.

It is about people who abuse the tolerance of others, the criminals who wind up in women's prisons because their penis is "female". It is about positioning women into accepting the dominance of male voices.

The toilet thing is for many a unwillingness to participate, either wittingly or not, in what looks like, sometimes to be, a sexually motivated game.

Trans is an umbrella term which encompasses a huge range of difference. From intersex people whose sex is undetermined, to variant degrees of the unhappy man or woman who feels they would be happier with a different persona, right through the other end, the weekend masoginistic transvestite who is dressing up for kicks.

It is not one thing. And it is kinda offensive to lump it all together and try and legislate on it.

I want cubicals (nice ones which flush) for all, for everyone to be able to wear/live/be who ever they want, and that there is nothing wrong with being different.
X

Like your logic post pagwatch

There is no logic is there, it's all feelings and belief. I wonder if it's a reaction to the prevalence of science and secularism.

I never understand the fear and loathing expressed on here in relation to the horror of being in the vicinity of people with penises. Particularly given that, as many of us are mothers or hoping to become mothers, we have managed to survive sharing rooms and indeed beds with penises, and even giving birth to people with them.

Here's a logic diagram that clearly sets out why it's the wrong choice to freely allow men into women's toilets based on what they say they feel like:
risk to men risk to women risk to transwomen
Transwomen in mens low low medium
Transwomen in womens low high low

You may ask why I class the risk to women as high - well, it's because we can't tell who is trans and who isn't, thus women's toilets effectively become unisex, there are numerous reports of women being attacked in toilets by men, and being spied on with cameras etc. plus women are smaller on average than men, making these attacks more one-sided.

Transwoman risk is medium because they are on average of an equal size to men, I have yet to see a report of a transwoman attacked in a toilet, and I've not heard of men planting cameras in mens toilets to spy on them.

Transwomen having the right to go into womens toilets is throwing women under the bus.

This is different to lesbians and gays, who were not asking anyone to risk themselves, they were just asking to be allowed to be themselves and not be attacked for it.