To think this person should be in jail?

[FerdinandsMassiveBollocks]

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/female-transsexual-walks-free-court-8546941

Anyone else not comfortable with this being counted as a crime committed by a woman? And really not comfortable with this person not going to jail? I don't care if there are no female specific classes, (there is a reason for that btw, because women don't do this shit) this person was male enough to commit the crime they are male enough to go to men's prison.

A hole is not a vagina

The vagina after a sex change operation is NOT just a hole. It is far more complex than that. However, I think your position is now clear. Someone who is born as a man is always a man regardless of chromosomes, surgery, etc. That is not a position I can agree with, nor is it the position in law.

Why the pedantic insistence on what you perceive to be and have experienced as being 'female' being the only definition of being 'female'?

Being female is the only definition of being female. Being XX, having a vagina, breasts, uterus, vulva and creating eggs, and if any of those elements are missing or non functioning then that is an anomaly of the female body. That's what being female is. there is no other way to define female, especially by including people with XY chromosomes, penises, testes etc. They cannot be female, not ever. Because that is not what female means.

There are legitimate concerns here. Women's views are being silenced by people who haven't considered the situation in any depth. I know you have to pander to it to some extent MNHQ, but please think before you shut this discussion down.

Pr47 a male is always a male. That's not the same as saying a male is always a man.

They aren't easily worked around though and lots of issues are coming up all the time.

Transgender people have their own issues and need to be considered but they are not the same as women's issues.

katherinemumsnet please don't shut down this thread because a few angry people don't like what is being said. This is not a transphobic thread - this is a thread where I have been called transphobic for stating that people cannot change biological sex. There is a big difference. Please don't shut down rational discussion.

^^what venus just said

Now we are being silenced by other women too for not going along with the feelings of some men

Really

agree with mephisto

There are some posts on here which probably deserve to go but not the whole thing

'Transphobia'

FFS.

There's no transphobia here. People are simply raising legitimate concerns about the law making a blanket 'a trans woman is now a woman full stop no questions asked'.

It's scary, will I one day be called transphobic when I request a rape counsellor that was born a woman?

Fair enough, MNHQ, I hope you are on the lookout for misogyny as well. Equality for all.

A hole is not a vaginaThe vagina after a sex change operation is NOT just a hole. It is far more complex than that. However, I think your position is now clear. Someone who is born as a man is always a man regardless of chromosomes, surgery, etc. That is not a position I can agree with, nor is it the position in law.

It may well be incredibly complex, but it is not a vagina.

I have also made my position very clear from the start. Once born a male always a male. I will call you Betty and say she to make you feel better and don't give a shit what toilet you use but you are a male and I do not want to see your penis in a changing room or a female prison.

Update: Our suspension button isn't working - so we are going to have to temporarily remove the thread so that we can thread through it properly and remove anything that breaks Talk Guidelines.

Women may try and pretend they don't want to be on the wrong side of history but the truth is most lesbians and straight men are not lining up to date transwomen. Because they don't believe they are actually female.

Hence all the cotton ceiling business.

Lesbians are already being called transphobic because their sexual preferences don't suit a certain group of people. Cotton ceiling and all that.

MN I literally said I would use a person's chosen name, pronouns and that don't mind if they use women's bathrooms but do not want to see a penis in the changing room. Which bit of that is against talk guidelines?

Do we have to actually say we believe that males are female now?

As my last post was deleted I will simply repeat my last (un-deleted) post.

The vagina is a muscular and tubular part of the female genital tract, which in humans extends from the vulva to the cervix. The outer vaginal opening may be partly covered by a membrane called the hymen. At the deep end, the cervix (neck of the uterus) bulges into the vagina. The vagina allows for sexual intercourse and childbirth, and channels menstrual flow, which occurs periodically as part of the menstrual cycle.

^That is a vagina.

Just like the guy pictured before doesn't really have a lizard's tongue. He has a human tongue that has been cut in a fork shape. A hole (no matter how complex is not a vagina.).

You had a thread shut down for a couple of hours so that a couple of posts could be removed, you have thrown nothing but misogynist slurs about, (none of which were removed I note)and accused anyone who doesn't immediately capitulate a man hater.

The only person hating anyone on this thread is you. I wonder why you wish to post on a site predominantly used by women when it's fucking obvious that you have no respect for us, feel we are just a suit to be put on when a man fancies doing it and seem to actively detest women who have opinions on things that affect us. I'm not trying to tell you to leave, but, like all people who hate women, I wonder why you feel the need to tell us so often.

Silencing women's discussions and voices is such a novel concept.

I think it is highly offensive to leave standing posts that claim lady brains are fact but delete posts that claim males and females are different. Offensive and a bit ridiculous.

What the FUCK HQ! I've been deleted for saying that trans women are male. Are you fucking for real?

What I have an issue with is the spiteful, pointless denial of the 'status' of being female to someone who whole-heartedly believes they are one, or the expectation that they should accept being treated as male, when actually their actions and experiences are harmful to no-one.

No-one, apart from the child who was abused who clearly does not matter at all.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/2700050-Protesting-deletions-on-the-thread-about-trans-sex-offender?watched=1

A neo vagina is far from functional like a natal woman's. They have to be dilated, they don't expand and they don't really self lubricate. It's also made from penile, scrotal or bowel tissue as are the "labia".So not a hole but a simulacrum or ersatz vagina

Honestly, some of you would deny the sky is the blue. I'm totally for a trans person's right to be safe, free of abuse and live their life. If my friend David decided to wear a dress and be called Melinda, I respect this and would call my friend by preferred name and or pronounce. It doesn't mean Melinda is a woman. It means Melinda is a trans woman as Melinda cannot change biology.

FWIW I don't identify as a female..or male..or anything else. I am biologically a female but I don't allign myself with a gender as a I reject that woman = dress and wine and man = beer and football.