migrants - AIBU to wonder how this will all work out ?

[lovelyconverse123]

My understanding of the migrant crisis is that the majority of the migrants are coming from countries which do not, in any way, share or support Western beliefs/values/way of life. They are now flooding into Western Europe in the hundreds of thousands. Nobody knows who they are or their background in their home country. AIBU to wonder what will be the result of this ?

They are fleeing war/violence etc. AIBU to wonder why, when they reach Hungary, which is a 'safe' country, (although economically depressed), is it not good enough and they are determined to reach Germany, UK, Austria etc ?

AIBU to wonder why the majority of these migrants feel it is acceptable to stampede through European law immigration procedures to reach their chosen country rather than wait and be correctly processed in the 'safe country they have landed in ? Surely if a person has landed in a 'safe' country, after witnessing goodness knows what in their home country, they should respect and adhere to the policies and procedures of that country ?

AIBU to wonder how this will all work out ?

I would like to hear your calm and measured thoughts please................

I think a lot of this, in some parts, paranoia, is due to the media. But first of all these people are not refugees. They are asylum seekers. You only achieve refugee status when your claim for asylum has been successful. So they are neither migrants nor refugees. Here's the link...www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefingPaper/document/70 (hopefully this works as I've never done a link before)

I do think the problem is that the media have fuelled the flames with a lot of half truths AND the Government etc aren't listening to the mumblings of a significant number of people in the UK who are worried about this.

We've seen very large groups of people threatening hunger strikes, marching down motorways, fighting to get onto trains... Believe me, I don't blame them. I'd be doing the same. But, talking to my mum (who is in her 80s and had friends who, as Jews, fled the Nazis in WWII so should, according to some on here, know better), she is concerned about a few things. Here they are:

1. If a significant number of these people fail their asylum bids they will take the law into their own hands because they have already shown that they will do anything as they are desperate. She is scared of rioting. My answer? Perhaps they will. If they do they will be dealt with. Yes, there may be a few days/weeks of trouble for the UK if that happens but we've been there before with riots and doubtless we'll be there again. Most won't fail and those that pass will move on to my mum's next worry.
2. They'll take away our housing. I went into a council's website about housing. Asylum seekers are apparently, most of the time, put into the houses that no one else wants. Now, that didn't satisfy my mum and I must admit I didn't blame her. We currently have people in B&Bs through lack of housing so are there really houses that no one wants? If so, why? But that's another issue.
   My mum's question is will asylum seekers 'put up' with being put in camps if that's what they have fled from and that is all we can offer until they are processed. I didn't have an answer to that. My humanity says they shouldn't have to but my common sense says that's the really practical thing to do. We need to know where people are so that they can be deported if they turn out to be 'undesirables', we need to house them and we need to feed them whilst we wait for that decision. Asylum camps are the most sensible way forward. But would an asylum seeker who wants a settled life accept that for a short time? My gut reaction is that they would have to. I couldn't care less if these camps had wall to wall carpeting, 24 hour room service and a spa as long as the Government/powers that be knew where every asylum seeker was and they didn't just 'disappear' half way through their first month in the UK.

Will they take away our housing? Well, in one sense, yes. Once you get refugee status you can apply for a council house etc but you are then a citizen and as entitled to being housed as my mum or her Jewish friend who fled here in WWII or my friend who migrated here from Malaysia.

3. What if they don't integrate? Maybe some won't. I used to work in local government and worked with a local Indian women's group on one occasion. Only three of the women spoke English. The others, despite being here for a fair amount of time, hadn't learned. My friend, from Malaysia, has her mum with her. They've lived here for 20 years. Mum can't speak English. I can't explain it other than to say that my sister's father in law owns a small house in Italy - a holiday home. He's owned it for 25 years. His SIL is married to an Italian and lives near the holiday home. We went out a few years ago and I made an effort to order food, get groceries etc in pigeon Italian. My sister's FIL still shouts in English...Some people will try to 'fade into a country' other's will make it obvious that they are different and be proudly so.
   My mum's real worry was as some have mentioned on here. The vast number of asylum seekers and, eventually, refugees, we are seeing walking across Europe would have an effect on the 'British' way of life. Well, maybe. Most will integrate and be 'British' outside the home and a sort of 'British with a twist' inside the home. My American friends celebrate bonfire night, Fourth of July and Thanksgiving. Great.
   Some will try to make a mini Syria (or wherever) here. They may or may not succeed in that. Some will make mistakes at first but they will learn. My Malaysian friend made quite a few cultural cockups when she first came over here (as a migrant, not an asylum seeker). Her friends and neighbours gently put her right and she integrated. That's what will happen to the majority of these people. The others? Well, the UK will have to deal with that if and when it happens.

So, is my mum racist? Probably. Although, in her defence, she'd be exactly the same if she saw thousands of Americans, French, Australians or even Scots (my DH is a Scot BTW) marching on motorways. It's the number, not the colour of the skin that is scaring her. And the newspapers not pointing out the hoops these people will have to jump through to stay in the UK plus the Government outlining what they are planning to do with them all in the first few months.

It would certainly seem so, from her posts, fast.

Lil I can't be bothered to explain again that you did say everything you are being "accused" of saying as the responses you've been given are really clear and you're just not going to get it.

I totally agree OP.

LilMisss I take it you're ignoring my post?

I know but funny how people jump to support Pipbin when someone makes a wrong assumption about Pipbin but when Pipbin was falsely accusing me of saying something I never did no-one bothered to point it out. Just a quick to experiment to show the bias.*

Thank you for your apology for incorrectly assuming something about my post.

fastdaytears not everything. Pipbin admits I never said Halal meat so don't lie ok. I was also accused of saying I wanted no refugees to come here despite the fact I never said that..wheres the proof I said it ..doesn't exist because I didn't. Another lie. Lies upon lies about what I said and you believe them.

Ignoring your post? No I answered it so many times I made it clear I am not going to go over it again

I'm confused about LilMiss 's religion which means she can't eat Halal meat. When I went out to the pub she was saying she's not Sikh but knows some Sikhs but now that post Pipkin quoted says she is. Can everyone just pick a religion and stick to it please. Ta.

But what were you referring to if it wasn't halal? Kosher wouldn't be a problem to someone Jewish, and I don't think you can buy meat blessed under the Sikh faith in a regular supermarket.

And you can't say anything negative in this world about Jews without being thrown in jail. As a "Jew", shouldn't you take something from that and be open minded and not discriminate against Muslims? Why do you think it's ok to discriminate against Muslims in the same way Jews were discrimated against all those years ago?
Have you not learnt anything from your own history?

LilMiss. No intention to be personal, but I read the thread (quickly) this afternoon, when it was about how to manage/cope with hundreds of thousands of refugees/migrants, and suddenly found my comments in a thread of kosher/halal butchery when I returned several hours later. I don't believe the Syrian crisis is entirely the responsibility of any nation, but I feel that some of the main players are vanishing off stage. Sentiment and pictures of dead toddlers aside, this issue requires all of us to consider how best to alleviate the human suffering, without giving way to soft fluffy Hallmark responses, and to do so in a manner that does not destabilize the European social society that has been hard won over multiple generations. Hungary is just the first country many migrants will reach, but their preferred destination is shall we say, softer?

By my maths, and I admit it is not my best subject but I've checked it three times on calculators, 4 million refugees into 1 billion pounds equals 250 pounds per person.

Not a huge amount of money spent per person by any stretch of the imagination and that is over a period of 4 years.

What type of 'blessed meat' were you referring to, LilMiss?

But you did mean Halal meat. You're Jewish - so you're not talking about Kosher meat, are you. Kosher and Halal are the types of meat mislabelled.

I said your posts certainly sounded like you wanted no refugees here - I was most pleasantly surprised when you said this wasn't the case. However, you haven't actually said anything to support increasing the numbers of refugees settling in the UK - you have only argued about the money they're getting (loads according to you) and said negative things about Muslims (but that's not racism, oh no, not at all).

Knockmesideways, your post was interesting. I am not terribly clued up on what "our way of life" means tough. Who's way of life does it refer to? My way of life is quite different to thousands and thousands in the UK. What does this statement mean? I ask this because I hear it quite often and it baffles me.

Apologise? ha what for when it was a method to prove a point. I don't believe in the assumption you say I am making Pipbin. I did it because I knew people would immediately jump to defend you yet people are happy to allow other posters to lie about what I say and not one person stood up and said they were wrong. So my point is proven that its very biased on here and completely utterly pointless in continuing anymore.

Fastdaytears is a perfect case ...believing in the lies especially the one you admitted to Pipbin yet despite you admitting you lied about something I said posters like Fastdaytears believe I said it.

Unbelievable the sheep mentality...don't read what I wrote just believe what other posters said I wrote even when they admit they made it up they will still believe it to be true.

Guys it's just the general blessed meat. You see it all the time. Low fat mince with a general non specific blessing. Waitrose have it.

The Jews were living and were integrated in Europe already so slightly different IMO and were systematically rounded up to die.

I think the poster who discusses her mum's fears makes valid points.

Pipin didn't make a wrong assumption about your post. She was entirely correct in what she surmised and, tbh, I'm not sure why she apologized. We are still waiting to hear from you which religion is blessing this offensive supermarket meat that apparently is something other than halal.

Lil I'm not a sheep! But I have managed to work out your religion now which you did state so I apologise for that. This thread has got way too long to follow now.

What type of 'blessed meat' were you referring to, LilMiss?

More than one poster have asked you to clarify.

I think this thread is in danger of becoming all about LilMiss so perhaps we should stop and get back to the original topic? Anyone new to the post is going to be wondering why we've suddenly stopped talking about refugees and are now debating "blessed" meat!

Apologise?
Yes please, I apologised when I said that you had said halal meat when you hadn't. I apologised for making an assumption and saying that you had said something you hadn't.
You assumed that I was referring to your post when I corrected my use of there to their.
I apologised for my incorrect assumption and I quoted your post to show that you didn't extend the same courtesy.

Yes, the obviously Halal blessed meat. It's a derailment - but I think the whole conversation shows an insight into Lil's feelings about Muslims being "other" to her sphere of conscience.

Cerseirys I totally agree. I've come back in and am pretty muddled. Also forget this blessed meat what about the dogs in the taxis? Will someone please think of them.