migrants - AIBU to wonder how this will all work out ?

[lovelyconverse123]

My understanding of the migrant crisis is that the majority of the migrants are coming from countries which do not, in any way, share or support Western beliefs/values/way of life. They are now flooding into Western Europe in the hundreds of thousands. Nobody knows who they are or their background in their home country. AIBU to wonder what will be the result of this ?

They are fleeing war/violence etc. AIBU to wonder why, when they reach Hungary, which is a 'safe' country, (although economically depressed), is it not good enough and they are determined to reach Germany, UK, Austria etc ?

AIBU to wonder why the majority of these migrants feel it is acceptable to stampede through European law immigration procedures to reach their chosen country rather than wait and be correctly processed in the 'safe country they have landed in ? Surely if a person has landed in a 'safe' country, after witnessing goodness knows what in their home country, they should respect and adhere to the policies and procedures of that country ?

AIBU to wonder how this will all work out ?

I would like to hear your calm and measured thoughts please................

What makes what's happening in Syria an actual 'war' though? Yes, we see it as a war, but legally, officially is it a war? What makes it a war?

"Sorry sooty, but 3 or 4 posts in a row going "they're REFUGEES, don't you know", by people who probably didn't even know the politically correct term until it started making the rounds as a Facebook petition, are snooty and annoying."

That's quite an assumption. A lot of people are politically aware and don't rely on the social media zeitgeist to inform them. The word "refugee" has been around for a long, long time, and predates the concept of political correctness.

I too wondered why the crisis had suddenly got so bad. The last month has seen millions of refugees move through Europe. Has it been this bad earlier and we just didn't hear about it? Pre-election?

Also, is the Calais refugee situation a completely separate thing? It appears that few of them are Syrian and most are North African? From where are they fleeing?

The last mass migration of refugees was the Jews fleeing Europe.

Techinally you could say we are taking back into Europe what we sent to the middle east...

North Africa - Sudan, Somalia etc it's a very politically unstable part of the world

I completely agree with you OP. But it's just a knee jerk reaction to the tragic events yesterday. Nobody is thinking through what the long term impact is, or what the most effective way to help the neediest refugees in the most danger is. Or even what the fallout in Syria is going to be of the youngest and healthiest leaving Syria en masse. I think that the seeds of longer term problems are currently being sown because people are thinking emotionally and not pragmatically.

And Eritrea. Don't read up on the human rights abuses there unless you have a very strong stomach.

I think Cameron's right processing entry into uk for refugees in the camps in Syria and borders which may start to stop the refugees paying Mafia types and endangering their lives and their children's lives in boats escaping . I think Germany can well take thousands and thousands , it is a rich powerful country , but should also start processing the families from refugee camps in Syria.

You are only a refugee if you can show that you are being persecuted in your country of origin for your race or religion etc. If you are simply one of many fleeing intolerable conditions then you are not a refugee and you are not entitled to claim asylum under the UN Convention.

I think this is why the situation is now as bad as it is. Countries are allowed to say 'we don't want you, you are economic migrants only' but the conditions people are fleeing are appalling, so they are desperate and will risk their own lives to get here.

Only improving things in the country of origin is going to make a difference for the better. We can't stop people wanting to escape misery, poverty and death.

But yes, it is interesting that so many do not wish to stop in the first 'safe' country they get to. I can only assume cities like London have greater draw as there are already established communities who speak same language etc.

What are refugees?
A refugee is a person who:
'owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality, and is unable to or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country'
Article 1, 1951 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees

I am trying to understand some of this too.

My way has to try and do some directed research. I am a teacher and I decided I wanted to try and do something to help. I came up with the idea of writing a fictional daily diary of the story of Amira a 13 year old from Aleppo on Facebook. The research is really helping me get to start to understand it and I hope others can learn from it to. I hope I can get into conversations with Syrians who have a fuller perspective on this than I do.

If you are interested I would appreciate likes/shares/ or help (including Criticism!)

www.facebook.com/pages/I-am-Amira/1632311030342049?ref=aymt_homepage_panel

They don't want to stay in Hungery because last year Hungrey refused over 90% of asylum seekers requests to stay in the country.
So are trying to escape the country as they know if they stay they have a very high chance of being sent back to a war zone.

Do you also know that 11 members of the family of the poor baby who drowned, have been murdered in the past two years by ISIS?

But London doesn't have anywhere to house them! If they want 'London only' then how are they going to react?

Excuse typos

If I was forced to leave my home and my country I would want to go somewhere that I could find people who spoke my language and had my religion. London is an attractive destination because it has established communities.

If you are living in a tent/rubble/watching your children starve, you probably don't give much of a shit if Londoners are worried there isn't room for you.

I am sure there are many famiies in London all living in one room. As was common in London 200 years ago.

I imagine there are many trigger factors pushing them now.

Probably lots of false information going on too,Chinese whispers.

If this was me I could imagine holding out somewhere to see if the situation ended and we could simply go home...I guess that hope has now gone.

Remember years ago there was talk of ousting Assad, and supporting the uprising, and then ISIS came along.

I am sure there are many famiies in London all living in one room

Oh yes, many people from the EU living in one room all over the UK, as well as the in famous Slough Sheds?

I bet many greedy LL are rubbing their hands right now.

There are no checks from the council either, these places are sheer squalor.

The last mass migration of refugees was the Jews fleeing Europe

Indeed but this seems to be mainly men.

where are the elderly, the women and the children.

I was able to move to the UK without anyone knowing my background.

Oh, that's interesting. Coz I sure wasn't allowed to. Had to regularly go visit & be interviewed by the police for the first few yrs.

I am an immigrant. I was an unintentional migrant. I thought about becoming a migrant again but too lazy now. I cannot see anything nasty about being a "migrant".

I have to agree with the statement from Hungary's PM expressing concern about the mass exodus of Muslims into a predominantly Christian Europe. It does concern me that in time we could see our culture undermined and our freedom potentially eroded.

If you were them would you see Hungary as a long term safe option - given what the Hungarian Prime Minister has said - and given the way the Hungarian police are handling the people - some of the pictures are distressing.

If I was one of those people travelling from a war torn country with children - I would like to think I would do anything to get to the safest place to make a home for my children.

Also if they all waited nicely in their war-torn home countries to be processed legally they would likely by and large be ignored by the West

I am also worried about large numbers of Muslims taking over Christian societies. I am pretty sure they won't be willing to integrate but will persist with their own culture. I am a migrant myself (personal reasons), I am proud of my origin however I have made sure I adapted and integrated in the society I moved to. This migrant crisis is a tragedy to Europe. Why migrants don't flee to other Muslim countries? Why are they selecting countries they "want" to go to? Why there are mostly men only? How come many Africans are also migrating at the same time? I don't agree with any of this!

And especially seeing horrible pictures of a drowning child (yes, horrible) now we pledging to accept high numbers to London?

I feel we are digging a grave to ourselves. And I am not even British. S

interesting comments. i would assume many of theses migrants are now aware that they will certainly be taken in in Germany, uk etc, so therefore why do they feel that the European immigration laws can be completely ignored and they will not wait to be documented ? surely, this is an indication of the dogged mentality to push their own agenda regardless of the laws of the new land they are entering ?

the country where i am posting from has been on its knees due to national debt, and it is through sheer austerity measures inflicted on the 'squeezed middle' that we are now thankfully getting back on our feet. there is currently an unprecedented housing and health crises. i cannot see how my country can possibly adequately provide health, educational, accommodation, employment, translation facilities/services for thousands more people. if these services cannot be adequately provided i believe this will inevitably lead to serious social problems re migrants feeling short changed and citizens feelings even more put upon.

Europe has a fundamentally Christian identity. The migrants follow a completely different religion. Does anyone else feel that the fundamentals of Europe may be on the way to being under threat ?

Where are other middle eastern countries in this ? Are they offering homes to quotas of migrants ?

Syria has long been a thorn in the side of world politics and it seems that it is now up to Europe to solve this problem.