migrants - AIBU to wonder how this will all work out ?

[lovelyconverse123]

My understanding of the migrant crisis is that the majority of the migrants are coming from countries which do not, in any way, share or support Western beliefs/values/way of life. They are now flooding into Western Europe in the hundreds of thousands. Nobody knows who they are or their background in their home country. AIBU to wonder what will be the result of this ?

They are fleeing war/violence etc. AIBU to wonder why, when they reach Hungary, which is a 'safe' country, (although economically depressed), is it not good enough and they are determined to reach Germany, UK, Austria etc ?

AIBU to wonder why the majority of these migrants feel it is acceptable to stampede through European law immigration procedures to reach their chosen country rather than wait and be correctly processed in the 'safe country they have landed in ? Surely if a person has landed in a 'safe' country, after witnessing goodness knows what in their home country, they should respect and adhere to the policies and procedures of that country ?

AIBU to wonder how this will all work out ?

I would like to hear your calm and measured thoughts please................

Evidence is not the plural of anecdote

I completely agree - but I can't help finding it interesting that many are happy to ignore this when the anecdotes are coming from a group they favour/wish to support

the last stats from Eurostat show that only 16% of all asylum claimants in the EU were from Syria. Most were from Kosovo and economic migrants

Thanks for the link, Snowmunch - I confess I didn't know this

Im thinking folk on here dont get Onlysayings sarcasm.

yes , I am a daily mail reader...in the same way that you're probably a Socialist worker sorry, Guardian reader. So what? I can read what I like.

Anyway, you mustn't watch the news much, since you have missed scenes of placard waving refugees, at first glance you might think the placards say 'thanks Europe'...but no..it's the start of their demands.

Well onlysaying has really outdone themselves with that big pile of bollocks latest post.

Perhaps gratitude is a cultural thing. We see manners as important and try to say thank you and remain humble, self effacing etc. I'm sure in other cultures what can be perceived as rudeness and ingratitude is actually totally normal, so I wouldn't put too much store in how the refugees are reacting in the face of so much change and worry.

I imagine many of them are extremely suspicious of authority and don't trust that these trains are taking them anywhere safe or that they are signing away the right to a free or better life somewhere. I suspect that's why they aren't keen to get themselves documented. They will have a fixed destination in their head and their only objective is to get there. I can understand that.

Why are all the do gooders always apologising for other cultures ' rudeness'? Its quite pathetic. Yes some manners are cultural of course. But basically disrespecting aid when you have escaped death aint the same as not kissing someone on the cheek or saying please in the supermarket.
Can you imagine if the UK was run by IS. And we had to flee to a muslim country. Would they even accept us with our cultural and religious differences. And if they did, could we put out demands of what we wanted.
Hardly.

sparklyknickers - they are not 'sitting safely in a tent' -which sounds almost idyllic, eh? -although I reckon sitting in a tent would drive most people crazy after months/years.

These people are terrified, traumatised. Amnesty International have described the conditions in the camps as dire - far from safe - they have serious concerns. Humanitarian aid workers have reported that they cannot offer assistance to everybody in the camps, they are overcrowded. They are having to close their doors to new refugees coming out of Syria.

I would prefer a female doctor myself, most women would, but realise in the NHS ulyou get what you get.

I've been asked if I would a female doctor or nurse whenever I book my appointments. I thought all women in the UK had the right to request to be seen by a female, or have a female present. I can see why many women would request a female,some if those reasons are nothing to do with religion either, I genuinely thought that requesting a female during medical examinations etc was a reasonable request, a patients right? I'm almost sure I saw a poster encouraging women to ask for a female when booking appointments if they might feel uncomfortable. I was thinking of asking for a female at my breast exam later this week, but am having second thoughts now if its not the done thing.

Sorry for the derail, was just thrown when I saw women requesting women as ludicrous. I honestly thought it was a usual common request.

yes , I am a daily mail reader

Really? I couldn't tell. Would that be the same Daily Mail who were initially supportive of the Nazis?

Iusedtobecarmen, the women that have 'just got off the plane' are human beings, and equal to you. They are not inferior because they are new to the country. From what you've written on here, I'm not sure that you treat them so.

I also would have thought that workers for the NHS are trained to have a religious/cultural tolerance.

If the UK were ever in dire straits, I highly doubt we'd all flee to the Middle East.

We'd do exactly the same as the Syrians are trying to do and go somewhere we understood the language and had a chance at finding employment and a decent standard of living.

We'd go to the US, Aus, NZ, Germany, France.

Would we happy for America to stick us all in a tent city somewhere and forget about us? Would we not protest for better rights and a better life?

Afghanistan/Iraq/Syria etc would be the last place a UK refugee would think to turn, so that argument really makes very little sense.

Yes of course its a woman's right to ask for a female health care worker.
As a midwife my profession is mainly female dominated. The doctors are mixed. So if a patient needs a doctor in an emergency situation or urgent situation that is beyond my remit you get whatever doctor is on call.
Its usually only a muslim patient who asks for a female doctor. Some insist (or their husband does). We will say of course you can see a female doctor but one is not available or you need a senior DR who is male. Many still refuse. Some have 'female staff only'written on their notes.
Of course general GP appointments, personal ones, where you book in advance you have more of a choice.
Im talking about an overstretched unmanageable NHS hospital.

Really? I couldn't tell. Would that be the same Daily Mail who were initially supportive of the Nazis?

Even your beloved guardian wrote a piece entitled 'Don't damn the Daily Mail for its fascist flirtation 80 years ago'

Can you imagine if the UK was run by IS. And we had to flee to a muslim country. Would they even accept us with our cultural and religious differences. And if they did, could we put out demands of what we wanted

Precisely....there is no way they would fling open their doors for us, no way! A middle eastern country offering to absorb 100,000 european christians....that's a laugh out loud moment. That's because they don't have the same volume of 'bleeding hearts' that we seem to have here.

They are probably totally unashamed of their intense patriotism in those countries...while so many people here are (bizarrely) embarrassed to love their own country...they seem to despise the UK, in which they live a good life.

And the same Daily Mail that tears women down every day? They're either too fat or too thin. Too young to have babies or too old to have babies. Having too many babies or not having any at all. So basically a misogynist's dream? And that's without even mentioning the blatant xenophobia that forms its editorial stance.

greenwood tree
You dont know what you're on about and you dont know what my job is.like or my experiences. Even though im trying to explain. Its turned round to out me at fault
Frequency,
Of course we wouldnt flee to the middle east. And why is that? Cos they are all muslim countries.who wouldnt accept us! Yes we would go to countries with the same values and cultural. Similarities. That you suggested.

Muslims dont mind coming to a non muslim country like Britain because we will absolutely bend over backwards to make them welcome. Even if it offends anyone else.
Parts of the city I live look like middle east. I sometimes catch the bus and am . surrounded by non English speakers. Mosques are being built all the time, though I cannot remember that last time I saw a church being built.
Im all for diversity but honestly parts of this country have changed and not for the better.

Well, yes Frequency, of course the vast majority of people living in Africa would want to live in Britain and get a British passport if they could, and so would I.

Your argument suggests that anyone who wants to improve their life should be able to come to Britain, and get British citizenship.

With an African population of 1.1 Billion forecast to grow to 2.4 Billion in 34 years, that is simply not reasonable. Don't forget conditions are so poor in Africa that the WHO say that 6.3 million children under 5 die in Africa every year from preventable causes, and spending $160 billion world wide aid has little effect. Then consider the whole of the Middle East and India and Bangladesh and Pakistan. Even now UK spends £12 Billion on aid, which is 4 X the amount the US spends as a % of GDP - even though we are far poorer than the US and have a 1.5 Trillion debt and growing and are paying £50 Billion a year in interest.

Personally, I'd like to go and live in Monaco or California and get free housing, but that does not mean I should be able, especially if it would it would mean another 1 million Brits going there, snowballing as the news circulates.

There have to be very strong controls, unless you are fine with say 5 million migrants coming to Britain a year, after 10 years, there would be more immigrants than those born here, and given that the culture of these countries is very different, often medieval, the Britain that we know would disappear forever, out entire culture would be subsumed.

It seems some British people value British culture less than those cultures from the Middle East and Africa.

But conditions are dire in the camps, sparkly - dangerously bad, how are you not getting that? Would you seriously be happy for your children to sit hungry and filthy in those camps, or would you try for something better? Every human being has the right to seek something better for their families, having escaped war. These people are victims of war, traumatised, possibly suffering PTSD - onlysaying, I'm so sorry they're not bowing and scraping, and kissing European's feet as they travel through. That must offend your white-man sensibilities.

The casual and vindictive racism on this thread is shocking - in fact it's amongst the worst I've ever seen on MN.

Carmen - are you not aware of cultural and religious diversity? Because if you work in a hospital with a high Muslim population, you should be. Do your patients a favour and ask for some diversity training, please.

'We'd do exactly the same as the Syrians are trying to do and go somewhere we understood the language

err yes, and would that not be fellow neighbouring muslim countries for them? duh!

Oh I forgot, no neighbouring oil rich middle eastern countries are reaching out a hand to their fellow muslims. They wont help them. Which reinforces my point , that middle eastern countries would not help europeans under the same circumstances