To ask all Scottish MNrs to work together 2

[siiiiiiiiigh]

Sorry, filled the last thread with this, thought I'd better be part of Team Scottish MN and work together for those of us on the old thread...

Here's Armando's thoughts. I vote him in for everything.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/21/scottish-referendum-massive-voter-turnout-means-politics-changed-for-ever

Thanks!

I enjoyed that article, but I'm not sure about extending to vote to 16 year olds. Although as I typed that I remembered that you get your NI card at 16! I could be convinced on that point.

I am not a fan of 'the 45' movement. I would prefer to see yes voters looking outwards, not grouping together.

I think someone in the SNP needs to have a word with Jim Sillars, or take his phone and laptop off him at the very least. His latest tweet is just crazy........

Let Yes assert new indy rule – no more ref – majority votes and seats at Holyrood 2016 enough #the45

Ummmm not very democratic Jim.

I think the 45 thing will fizzle out soon enough once people feel part of something and there's places like Bella Caledonia and Women for Independence, groups that were formed to work for the yes vote, making plans for the future.

I just think being part of the yes campaign was a really positive thing for lots of people and now it's over people are trying to hang on to that feeling of having been part of something.

I forsee a couple of new parties emerging soon, inclusive of yes and no voters, full of people looking for change.

Is anyone else involved with women for independence?

I agree lovley.

The whole "Yes" campaign was brilliantly run - it had people feeling really engaged with the political process, feeling as though they were part of something positive and could make a difference.

I hope that carries on.

Can't comment on social media as I've been steering clear, Jim Sillars seems to be a bit of a loose cannon.

People have mentioned elsewhere that it looks like we will have three women heading up their respective political parties. I like that. I have a newfound respect for NS after watching her on Friday morning. She was left to carry the can by AS. She carried herself with great dignity when she must have have been feeling utterly wretched and exhausted.

I'm a bit puzzled by the use of the term "45". I get it that it relates to the percentage Yes vote, but do the Scots really want to use a term that is also closely associated in Scots history with the defeat of the Young Pretender?

I think parts of the Yes campaign were well run and there were some great, engaging organisations. I would prefer personally if they went on and worked to address some of the underlying issues which made people want independence, rather than just focusing on independence itself if that makes sense? But obviously that's not my choice - but I would hope that some groups spring up which aren't about independence but about social justice, equality, poverty, better democratic process, political engagement etc.

Someone on t'other thread said it will take a while for Yes voters to forgive. I hate that. No voters don't need forgiveness - we haven't done anything wrong.

Ummmm not very democratic Jim.

How's that not democratic? If Scots choose to vote in MSPs who are all pro indy?

I find this 45 nonsense totally divisive. I really hope the energy is funnelled in a positive manner to make the whole UK better.

How's that not democratic? If Scots choose to vote in MSPs who are all pro indy?

Seriously? Can't believe you're even asking.

There can only be a mandate for independence if the majority vote for it in a referendum. Y'know, a bit like the one we've just had.......

Jim has lost the plot.

You can't alter the rules to suit your agenda because the results weren't to your liking.

If this question is ever revived: remember it was the TREATY of Union. It cannot be dissolved except by Treaty or equivalent between "rUK" and Scotland. There would have to be simultaneous referenda in both areas; a Yes from both being necessary to break up the Union.

That is how it should have been last week. Then the Smoked Salmond would have had to address himself to voters outside Scotland end convince them that the break-up of their Union was good for them as well as for the Scots.

As for Sillars his threats to big employers in Scotland cannot have done the Yes campaign much good. He is full of shit.

Ah, OK I understand now. I misread your post and the tweet and thought that it was being suggested that organising to get pro Indy parties in power was wrong. I agree there can be no independence without a clear mandate, and the only way to get that mandate is via another referendum.

If this question is ever revived: remember it was the TREATY of Union. It cannot be dissolved except by Treaty or equivalent between "rUK" and Scotland. There would have to be simultaneous referenda in both areas; a Yes from both being necessary to break up the Union.

I disagree with this. In an democracy any part of that democracy should be allowed to leave if it wishes, you can not make people stay, that is undemocratic.

Statistically I saw that comment too and thought the use of language was provocative and inappropriate.

Lovelyrita do you mean the Scottish woman for independence page? x

So now Jim Sillars and Mr Salmond himself are claiming that actually, the referendum was only one of the means by which independence could be achieved...??

This is becoming a farce. The Yes side need to admit defeat, and stop all the posturing, threatening behaviour and denigration of the majority of Scots who made their own minds up as intelligent, rational adults and voted No.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Didn't the Americans fight a bloody civil war over this?

Nobody has the right to break a treaty even if democratically elected to do so. It's our Union too.

It's our Union too.

If it turned out in the future that most people in Scotland wanted independence then they would have to be allowed to go and have it. Such an outcome could be a while off, or could be never, but it would be insane to stand in their way.

The '45 stuff is just awful. It's better propaganda for No than anything Better Together produced.

I can't work out if it's just a coincidence or if they are playing on the 1745 rebellion, which was itself a divisive campaign which if it had been successful would have been a disaster for Scotland.

I'm feeling considerably less conciliatory after reading it. The thought of going through this again in 4 years is a grim prospect but I suppose I never believed the "once in a generation" spin.

We can't go through this again in 4 years. It's done considerable damage, IMO, to our country - friendships, relationships badly damaged. We've had months if not years of constant campaigning. We don't need a neverendum. We don't need the instability of "when is the next one". We need to work on making the best of the situation we have, or with campaigning for changes that can be achieved without that sort of division.

The '45 stuff is just awful

Agree Phaedra, it perpetuates division. If the Yes campaign had reformed as The '55 it would rightly have been seen as piss poor form.

Time to get over the result and move on IMO.

And on that note - have you guys seen the article in the telegraph?

They have to be the 45, being the 44.7 doesn't work! I have unfollowed them all from my Facebook page as I wanted a week or two of kittens playing the piano. Even the ice bucket challenge would be welcome relief.

My MiL, who lived through all the last referendum, reckons it will fizzle out slowly and things will quieten down. I certainly hope so as this level of "Engagement" means lots of arguing and blaming and not much getting on with things.

Agreed. The thought of all this again in a few years time is horrendous. It'll rip the country to pieces.

The 45 thing is causing huge divisions amongst my yes voting friends. Three of them are regretting being part of the campaign and have fallen out with people because of it.

All this pushing for another ref is symptomatic of the feeling amongst many yes voters that those who voted no were thick, gullible traitors. It makes me . It wasn't some huge mistake, and posters, stickers and noise does not make a majority.