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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask all Scottish MNrs to work together 2

999 replies

siiiiiiiiigh · 21/09/2014 14:09

Sorry, filled the last thread with this, thought I'd better be part of Team Scottish MN and work together for those of us on the old thread...

Here's Armando's thoughts. I vote him in for everything.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/21/scottish-referendum-massive-voter-turnout-means-politics-changed-for-ever

OP posts:
Behoove · 21/09/2014 22:05

Didn't Salmond promote the comments and input of Canon Kenyon Wright during the campaign? Hypocrite indeed, happy to use church connections when it suits.
link

flippinada · 21/09/2014 22:06

I agree - all opinions are welcome.

I've said it before, I share a lot of common ground with yes voters. I'm someone who is very concerned with wefare, inequality and poverty.

I don't think we need to be independent to tackle those things and the two shouldn't be linked. I also think that important questions weren't answered and the risk of failure was too great. I resent the implication that voting no is irresponsible and that I only did it through fear and misinformation. Sorry but that's nonsense.

However I've already said this. The last thing we need is more division. Let's try to find some common ground and work from there.

Bambambini · 21/09/2014 22:12

Well seems like some are trying to just get on with things.

Curiouslygrumpycola · 21/09/2014 22:16

.

flippinada · 21/09/2014 22:20

I saw that earlier Bambini. Made me smile - more of that please.

flippinada · 21/09/2014 22:23

Interesting and thoughtful article from Marco Biagi, thanks Phaedra. I wonder which direction the SNP will take now.

Nirvana1979 · 21/09/2014 22:23

Babyboomersrock

Great post :)

Just to add, I think many Yes voters are feeling a bit lost. The campaigners in my town have worked relentlessly for so long. They are trying to stay positive and are continuing their campaign. Why shouldn't they? There may not be another Referendum for many years, doesn't mean they should just pipe down and shut up.

Woman for Independance meeting is being held here this week too which I'm going to. Looking forward to it.

babyboomersrock · 21/09/2014 22:25

it is really fucking offensive to say that voting no was not a responsible vote

Well, we certainly don't want to offend anyone do we? I didn't say that precisely, but I guess I do think that people of my age who voted No are - in the main - being self-centred. Some no doubt had the bejasus knocked out of them by the Better Together side's dire warnings, but some just don't give a damn as long as they're all right. Becoming old doesn't suddenly turn you into a nice, twee, kind, generous person (as I am illustrating).

It's funny, really, because older people are often criticised on here for being self-centred, smug - enjoying their cruises and spending their children's inheritance. I hadn't realised there were so many people who behaved that way, since my friends and I tend to be the ones doing free child care, helping with house deposits, supporting students and so on. All quite happily done, while realising we're lucky to be in a position to help - though we might regret the need for our children's continued dependence on us.

As for the whole religious thing which is upsetting most of you - I wonder why the pews are empty every Sunday if it's so crucial? Going to church with other hypocrites is a symbolic act of what exactly? Do I believe that Cameron and Brown would sit in church together? Yes, most certainly. Do I believe it symbolises anything beyond their desire to create a certain image? Certainly not.

I don't trust any of them. My hope for an independent Scotland was mostly that we'd be able to keep a closer eye on those in charge, that's all. And I'll never give up on that hope.

deeedeee · 21/09/2014 22:25

I think mumsnet should move this thread to chat now and rename it "Scottiah NO voters chat thread" , It ceased to be a debate a long time ago and misrepresents Scotland in my opinion. You lot are not the scotland I know by a long shot.

deeedeee · 21/09/2014 22:25

scottish not scottiah

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 21/09/2014 22:26

Fantastic post babyboomersrock Thanks

flippinada · 21/09/2014 22:26

Just to add, I think many Yes voters are feeling a bit lost - I can completely understand and sympathise with that. I've campaigned in the past (not for the referendum) and understand very well that feeling of being on the side that didn't win - all that energy needs to go somewhere.

TheBogQueen · 21/09/2014 22:27

SNP membership is up 11,000

Behoove · 21/09/2014 22:30

and misrepresents Scotland in my opinion. You lot are not the scotland I know by a long shot

I think you'll find that we do represent Scotland as we voted No.

The thread was set up to discuss and move forward together. Maybe it's too soon for those of you who are still hurting, maybe some of you just don't want to?

ChippingInLatteLover · 21/09/2014 22:30

deedee you are right, this lot are clearly not the Scotland you know. However, given they had the majority vote, I feel it's clear that they DO represent Scotland :) Forward thinking people who can see through AS's bullshit Utopia plan - the one that didn't have any legs. People who want the best for Scotland. No one is forcing anyone to post on this or any other thread.

MorrisZapp · 21/09/2014 22:33

The idea that the current over 60s just need to die and then it'll be wahay independence is deeply flawed anyway. Older people have different perspectives on life. It's not as if the yes voting teenagers will always all be yes.

My sixteen year old self would have voted yes all day long. Now I'm a borderline yes with a no husband. I kind of prefer his take on things but I voted yes to appease my family.

People change as they go through the stages of life. There will always be a degree of reticence for change amongst older people, even when in fifty years they're all over twitter.

rainbowinmyroom · 21/09/2014 22:36

This working together is going so well already Hmm.

frankie80 · 21/09/2014 22:42

deedee your comment 'this is not the scotland I know' makes me think of something my father said, basically that 'yes' voters arrogantly assumed everyone felt as they did and could not/would not accept some did not.

The Scotland you think you knew never existed.

PhaedraIsMyName · 21/09/2014 22:43

,but I guess I do think that people of my age who voted No are - in the main - being self-centred. Some no doubt had the bejasus knocked out of them by the Better Together side's dire warnings, but some just don't give a damn as long as they're all right

You missed out the option of some who weighed up the pros and cons and came to the decision it was neither in the short term nor the long term interest of Scotland to vote Yes.

My mil agonised over this. She's in her 90s and is sufficiently financially secure not to have to worry about her pension. She doesn't do social media, she did discuss it with her 2 sons and came to the conclusion that in the long term her grandchildren, great grandchildren and her country were better served by rejecting independence.

babyboomersrock · 21/09/2014 22:46

The thread was set up to discuss and move forward together. Maybe it's too soon for those of you who are still hurting, maybe some of you just don't want to?

Oh, I am moving on. So are thousands of others. We'll continue to do our bit in ways we've been doing, often working alongside people who voted differently from us on this occasion. That doesn't mean we need to be all nicey-nicey on an internet forum, "moving forward" with people we don't know. I don't need to be patronised. I am not some poor soul who's in deep mourning. I was disappointed, I had a day where things looked bleak, and now I am energised again. I will do what I can.

It's true that we change throughout our lives - it would be pretty damning if we never evolved. I've gone through several changes in belief, and find myself more engaged with politics and more concerned about peace and justice than ever. Apathy is the enemy, not honest conflict.

PhaedraIsMyName · 21/09/2014 22:50

Oh and by the way the mock election in my nephew's school in Aberdeenshire returned a No.

My nephew is 14 and would have voted No if he'd been old enough. My son is 24 and my brother is 44. Both nos. You'll have a long wait if you're waiting for old people to die off.

Behoove · 21/09/2014 22:50

Well, good for you. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the consensus. It's not being nicely nicely or patronising either, it's just manners and maybe listening to other people then putting in your own opinion. That's what Internet discussion forums are for I believe?

StatisticallyChallenged · 21/09/2014 22:50

My mum voted No. She's mid 60s, and whilst she has her (very significant!) flaws, she's spent most of her adult life living on council estates. She raised three children as a single parent. She doesn't have any assets to lose - she lives on a state pension and top up benefits in a rented council house. She was extremely active in the community for decades, fighting for improvements that made changes to thousands.

She voted, and in fact campaigned for, No because she believed that it would hurt the economy and therefore hurt the poorest. That's not selfish. She was also a No long before the BT campaign ramped up in the final weeks.

PhaedraIsMyName · 21/09/2014 22:52

No one was patronising you Baby although you have been pretty patronising about older people. I'd love to hear you tell my mil she's too stupid/ too selfish/ too scared to vote yes.

Bambambini · 21/09/2014 22:53

Anyone hear Alan Little's (a scottish BBC correspondent) thoughts on the referendum on Radio 4 today? Been trying to track down a written transcript, it was quite thought provoking.