To ask all Scottish MNrs to work together 2

[siiiiiiiiigh]

Sorry, filled the last thread with this, thought I'd better be part of Team Scottish MN and work together for those of us on the old thread...

Here's Armando's thoughts. I vote him in for everything.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/21/scottish-referendum-massive-voter-turnout-means-politics-changed-for-ever

I think Salmond is starting to look very ungracious very quickly.

Blaming old people, threats of declaring independence despite the referendum result........what a perfect way to alienate all but your most fervent supporters. If Nicola Sturgeon has any sense she'll need to vocally and publicly distance herself from Salmond and Sillars' crazy talk.

Yes, what happened to accepting the result?

That disappeared very quickly, didn't it. Real toys out of the pram stuff.

Agree squoosh Added to that his selection of the media attending his press conference on Friday and not attending the service in Edinburgh today (all 3 major party leaders were there, he sent Swinney instead) is very bad form. He should be doing everything he can as FM to keep Scotland united at a time of great division but he is hell bent on stirring things up.

I have been turfed off the other thread. Shame really because as we are not allowed to comment or challenge on there we end up with the kind of cross thread crap that is so frowned upon on mn. I don't like threads about threads at all but can't leave some of that stuff unchallenged.

Interesting that there is no thread where yes voters are unwelcome.

I really dislike the 45 thing. It's very ungracious and I wish they would realise that a lot of noise on Facebook does not make a result! In this case it didn't and they need to accept it.

I've just read through the Telegraph article. I don't know where to start with that. Pensioner blaming is shocking. Sillars is still stirring it up isn't he. Salmond still assumes that the No vote was because of the Vows, he doesn't realise that it was because the majority just didn't buy into the Yes promises and rhetoric. It's so arrogant. He just can't see that he did anything wrong.
I commented to dh that I wondered why he and Sturgeon did not attend the reconciliation service. It stuck out like a sore thumb. It's starting to look like they don't want to reconcile but how can we all move on until it happens?

The telegraph article is disgraceful, it really is. The sample for under 24 year olds is not big enough to draw solid conclusions from either so it's a particularly nasty argument. 16-17 year olds have a sample size of 14. 18-24 years olds is a sample of 84, which is still pretty low. When you combine them it comes in at 49% no. But at that sample size it's a 1-vote either way thing which makes it extremely unreliable IMO.

The regions are off too - 20% of the sample is from Glasgow for example overall, but it's 25% of the 25-34 age group

It is not appropriate to make every Holyrood election about independence. It's bad enough that the SNP have made every issue possible about it for the last 7 years. We've had a long intense campaign about it, people have had their say and need a break.

We could be actually doing positive things with the parliament we have, with the powers it has now and will get soon (both the Calman ones and further ones promised during this campaign).

You'll not be surprised that I'm frustrated (and hurt) that some of the 45 lot have decided to target Labour because they don't want people to have that option when faced with Conservative UK government versus Independence. It is clear that some of those who claimed that Independence was a means to an end (to have a fairer society, social justice etc) are deceiving themselves if they are willing to work against other people who are actively working for that end but don't agree they need independence to achieve it.

It is not appropriate to make every Holyrood election about independence

And if the electorate agree with you they will not vote in any SNP/Green/SSP MSPs.

I certainly won't be giving my vote to the SNP or the SSP ever again.

So it's just independence by stealth? A binary question was asked about independence and rejected.

My dh and i would like to vote green because we like their policies except independence. Are we going to be forced to vote labour to avoid a coalition that puts Independence at the top of the agenda all the time?

What was the point of a fucking referendum if people refuse to accept the authority of the decision. We need some time off ffs.

Seems Alex has already forgotten his "once in a generation" claim about the referendum...

I agree that a lot of issues have been neglected in order to aid the SNP's independence aims. If they're as truly outraged by food banks as they say they are maybe that's a good starting point.

There will have to be some very careful tactical voting won't there?

If the Green Party in Scotland wants to keep any credibility it might want to unhitch from a party that pins all its hope on North Sea oil.

We are going to get strategic voting then, because after all this, I would pull out my toenails before voting SNP or SSP. For me they have taken over the 'toxic' title previously held by the Tories. They will need to be very careful moving forward or they will lose some of the labour voters gained during this campaign. A strong labour could walk it and I wouldn't be surprised if the conservatives and liberal democrats had a bit of a resurgence.

Agreed behoove

My DH has lots of yes voting friends on his facebook. I've told him to unfriend them but he says its better just to ignore and stay quiet, although over the last few months he's shown me some of the 'shite' as he says, that they post.

One of them in particular posts absolutely everywhere - facebook (yes and no groups), newspapers, radio phone ins etc. He's really vicious.

The latest post I saw from him was on one of the 45 groups on Facebook - he said (I'm summarising here): "we will NEVER forgive the 55. You betrayed us. How can you live with yourselves. F*cking selfish OAPs who only care about their pensions. they're going to die soon, why are they getting to vote"

I've told DH yet again to unfriend assholes like him

Theres something really wrong with Salmond, isn't there?

I was beginning to suspect it when he disappeared on the night the votes were in, and left NS to carry it for him, about his comments about representing only those Scots who voted Yes, and about his lack of accuracy and truthfulness in the campaign in general. Also concerning his lack of leadership in condemning bad behaviour by Yes supporters. And now this claiming a mandate for independence, without, err, a mandate.

There really is something not quite right there, out of balance, something that shouldn't be present in a leader who is going to do good for a country.

Imagine what life would have become like in Scotland if there had been a Yes vote and he had been in charge.

Wow - Sillers really is losing the plot isn't he.

As for AS perhaps some of the YES voters will start to see him for what he is, a glory seeking bloke who never intended to see this through either way.

Phaedra there will have to be some very tactical voting up and down the UK which is why all of the people who want a better life for everyone in the UK need to get on board - Yes or No voter and not allow the extremists of any group/party/belief win through shady tactics.

If this becomes what the Scottish elections are for, I think we'll end up moving in the medium to long term. People claimed independence was about making Scotland a better place to live, why the hell put off trying to make Scotland a better place to live until there is independence?

Why not accept the result of the referendum as promised?

frankie. . De friend, definitely.

Re the SNP, it's just occurred to me that Sturgeon hasn't thrown her hat in yet or made a major statement. It will be very interesting when she does, to see which way she goes as her own woman (rather than being Salmonds support act), conciliation or combative?

What do you think will happen to the Labour Party now?

I think the conservatives will win get next general election. And the one beyond that if Boris takes the helm.

The gates are open for NHS privatisation. Tuition fees ( although no guarantee this wouldn't have happened eventually in an independent scotland, at least it would have been Scotland's decision)

Am wondering what effect the devolution proposals will have on ScotlBd - what will be a UK matter and what will be a devolved matter? What if NHS is decided to be a UK matter? Or education? Or NHS?

I genuinely don't know.

Well she left Swinney to attend the church service today. Is she a particularly dogmatic atheist? Although even I know and accept that there are occasions where the Church can be helpful and will attend church services.

Yes, I noticed that neither Salmond or Sturgeon attended the reconciliation service too.