To ask all Scottish MNrs to work together 2

[siiiiiiiiigh]

Sorry, filled the last thread with this, thought I'd better be part of Team Scottish MN and work together for those of us on the old thread...

Here's Armando's thoughts. I vote him in for everything.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/21/scottish-referendum-massive-voter-turnout-means-politics-changed-for-ever

I apologise, but I didn't see any unbiased facts to respond to. Which one of the points in scone's list are relevant to your opinion that holyrood has enough powers to tackle concerns already? Fracking? Westminster removed that power over the summer. I'm not sure what else you are referring to. Wasn't my post anyway, I was just responding to you saying you wouldn't vote green because of me! Because of course some anonymous angry person on a Internet message board is definately a Green party spokesman.

You choose your ex Etonians then and I'll choose mine! :-D accusations of patronising abuse right back atcha!

IOAML spending money from the NHS budget on private care has always went on, to plug gaps in services, shorter waiting lists etc. This is nothing new for governments, including the SG. But this is not privatisation as the government pay for the private service, not the patient and the NHS service is still free to them. If a service is privatised then of course the patient has to pay. And this is the way the Tories are heading under TTIP.

I think that's going to be an ongoing problem spiritedwolf -because it was a no vote, yes campaigners will respond to every bad thing that happens by saying it would never have happened in an independent Scotland. They've never had to accept what the reality of an indy Scotland is, how big the economic problems would be or what their knock on impact is. Real life UK will always be compared to independent utopia

Ttip is not about patient charging...

The fundamental problem, as I see it, is that the issues and dissatisfactions underlying many peoples desire for change are caused by modern life more than the actions of any one government and given the restrictions imposed by the money markets and globalised corporate structure no individual administration can effectively reengineer society. Independence would not have beens a panacea for societies ills, which it was being sold as.

To me, the yes campaign ended up sounding like someone demanding their doctor prescribe them antibiotics to cure a viral infection, at best unlikely to work beyond a placebo effect, at worst dangerous.

Just get out there and improve your bit of Scotland, get out and about, keep an eye on what's happening, help your neighbours, cut down on internet use!

On that note I had better log off and go and paint my window frames.

If parts of the NHS are privatised, either through TTIP or just because the Tories feel like it yes it will be about patients having to pay for health services.

I never have at any point that independance would be a panacea or a utopia. I have always said it would be an opportunity to , in time, be able to vote in more left leaning parties into government due to a fairer voting system and a smaller more liberal electorate, rather than continuing down the centre right path. It would have taken time and work to change, but there was an opportunity.

I don't agree with austerity as an economic policy.

I also don't agree with your fears of what would have happened economically in the event if an independant Scotland.

I also am not interested in doggedly pursuing a refrerendum , independance was an opportunity not a final destination.

I will now continue with what I was doing before, working locally to make my community a better place. Campaign for policies I believe in and oppose those that I don't.

I doubt I'll cut down on Internet use though!

Yes if the government of the day choose to introduce charging in the nhs they could. But that is not the point of TTIP. TTIP is about who provides the service, not who funds it.

cedric I went back on FB after a week off this am and things are certainly calmer. I don't quite get twitter so can't comment on that.

The letters page in the metro has been quite interesting this week with comments going forth between yes and no voters. There was a humdinger from a yes voter yesterday saying that (paraphrasing) all no voters should go and live in England as they like it so much. Not sure where to start with that one, but moving slightly less than two thirds of Scotland's adult population certainly won't benefit the economy...

I guess we had just better get used to the "X would have been better/wouldn't have happened under independence" line . Looks like we're going to hear it a lot!

Stay I'm not arguing with you. At no point did I say that was the point of TTIP. I have my fears what will happen to the NHS, both as a Nurse employed by them and a consumer. Obviously so do the Labour Party who only last week weren't.

Trixy you can roll your eyes all you like. No-ones going to change their opinion , from either "side".

Wow. This thread has turned nasty!

Independence was a chance ,not so much for independence, but to cut loose from WM policies and beliefs. Its all very well saying we should change the UK from within, but we can't we are too small.

Now we all need to focus on the devo Max/home rule "promises" made and push our MSPs/MPs to make this happen.

I'm a bit sad that someone said above that the enthusiasm for politics will die down, like this is a good thing. We should be aiming for 85% turnout in all elections. I don't think, thankfully, that it will die down. The networks are all in place from pre the referendum, Women for Indy, RIC etc are still going. Some of the more prominent blogs etc are combining together for more impact, a new Scottish news show is being crowdfunded.

Scotland has changed, and it is not going to go away, I think it is a bit depressing that people seem to want things back the way they were. I'm also a bit horrified that someone trotted out the 'foodbanks show what a caring society we are" line above (paraphrasing).

I think only one person answered my question on whether devo Max (everything except foreign policy/defence/macroeconomics) would be a good thing, or whether you genuinely support the status quo.

Yes I find it a bit strange that just because No won its as if some people think it's pointless people still talking about it if they are unhappy. I'm sure that's what a lot of the No voters in this thread would like but it isn't going to happen. Anyway must go have a rally in Edinburgh to get ready for at the Scottish Parliament!

I think it is a bit depressing that people seem to want things back the way they were

I find it a bit depressing that people are determined to try to rubbish the democratic outcome.

I would have voted for devo max. What worries me now is that if these new powers appear the SG aren't going to use them to their full effect as they still want independence. Like they let their tax raising powers lapse.

And tinkerball I agree that neither "side" is going to change their mind which is why calling for another referendum soon can only be a bad thing for Scotland.

I have a similar concern trixymalixy, the SNP seem to prefer to not do things even where they have suitable powers so that they can say they need independence to do it. Another referendum soon is just a waste of money. Use what we have, work on the individual issues.

I notice, deeedeee, that you are happy to snipe at me, demand to know what I'm doing to help the poor and then look down your nose at my efforts - but I didn't see you asking any Yes voters what they have done. Or are they automatically wonderful altruistic humans by virtue of just being a Yes voter?

I actually agree with you about voting for Devo max Trixy.

Yes I find it a bit strange that just because No won its as if some people think it's pointless people still talking about it if they are unhappy

No one is saying it is pointless. If the same old crap is still spouted, however, then No people will challenge it.

I'm sure that's what a lot of the No voters in this thread would like but it isn't going to happen

I haven't read anyone saying 'let's not debate this any more', just that the thread has dwindled as people resume their lives.

I think only one person answered my question on whether devo Max (everything except foreign policy/defence/macroeconomics) would be a good thing, or whether you genuinely support the status quo.

Some of us had no problem with the 'status quo'. I get quite fed up seeing the current situation bandied around like it is the worst thing ever to have happened to Scotland. Many people have shared that throughout these threads.

new Scottish news show is being crowdfunded.

Many of us shared the same frustrations as Yes voters at the bias and poor reporting in the news. I do hope this will not be the Scottish version of Fox News.

Now we all need to focus on the devo Max/home rule "promises" made and push our MSPs/MPs to make this happen.

I think you will find many people in agreement. Along with MSPs and Holyrood representatives held to strict accountability. Elements of this which also seem to be conveniently buried in the news recently.

Well it looks as if there is agreement on something then as thread nearly ends!

There was a referendum. The people decided.
Get over it and get together.

Apologies stat, I have perhaps unfairly targeted you. Glad you feel that you try to make a difference.

I asked you in particular because you went on about it a lot.

And fair enough, same question to everyone.

I would love if all of those who became engaged in the referendum would stay involved with politics and would work together to help Scotland thrive. What I meant was that the implicit threat made by deeedeee and others on this thread that SNP numbers are swelling and that a desirable outcome would be to continue to push for another referendum by placing this issue at the top of a holyrood agenda is not necessarily accurate.

In my experience (and borne out on social media) the appetite for another referendum is waining. Thank god. I do believe that many people have joined snp in the immediate aftermath in an angry backlash because things haven't gone their way and they want to force another indyref. I don't think this level of anger or engagement will remain.

I totally agree that getting involved in our communities and helping the disaffected, and marginalised would be a very constructive way to move forward (and yes, I spend 10 hours a week volunteering in my own community).

Regarding devo max - I would have voted for that if it had been an option. I'm not going to respond to the dig about no voters wanting people to put up and shut up.

I think the level of political engagement is one of the most positive outcomes of this referendum and I hope it continues.

trixy agree that another referendum in the near future would be damaging and divisive. I note that Nicola Sturgeon has refused to rule one out - hopefully that's just political sabre rattling rather than a statement of intent.