To ask you what you think about the Christian bakery?

[Summerbreezer]

Can't see a thread about this on here - apologies if there is one already.

For those who haven't read the story, a bakery in Northern Ireland has refused to bake a cake for a gay person. They wanted Bert and Ernie on the top of the cake with the words "Queerspace".

BBC Link here:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-28206581

I am completely torn here. On one hand, I am a big believer in "trendy" rights not trumping "untrendy" ones. The rights of Christians are just as important as the rights of gay people.

I am also a big believer in the freedom of private business to contract with whoever they wished.

But then, if this bakery had refused to serve a black person on the grounds of race, I would feel deeply uncomfortable about it.

So Mumsnet, tell me what you think!

This would be better in chat!

Ooops...wrong forum! Will get Mumsnet to move!

As an atheist, I think they are being ludicrous but then I accept that I am somewhat biased, given that I think religion in ALL of its forms is ridiculous.

Not helpful, I know!!

It is not a trendy right to expect all peoples to be treated equally.

I think it should up to them what cakes they make. It's a free country and they should be able to refuse business if they so wish.

I don't share their beliefs but I do think that have a right not to make a cake that disagrees with theirs.

Would you expect a kosher butchers to sell sausage rolls?

They refused to bake the cake, rather than refusing to serve the person; an important distinction. I assume they have sold cakes to many gay people in the past and will do so in the future.
Ask it this way round: if a gay baker refused to make a cake for a Christian organisation, a cake which for example declared opposition to gay marriage, would that be ok?

Fwiw, after deliberation, I think they can choose to take or not take whichever commissions they choose.

Trendy? Being gay isn't a trendy right

I 100% disagree with the baker

I agree with Garcia10. It's a private business. It's not an off-the-shelf item hence it's the same as any other commission ie they can accept or refuse.
They have a right to refuse. The customer has a right to go elsewhere.

I thought the baker's comments summed up a lot:

"In the past, we've declined several orders which have contained pornographic images and offensive, foul language."

So he is putting homosexual relationships in the same box in his head as those things.

So based on that alone is totally out of order.

Plus he's breaking the law surely.

So he is wrong wrong wrong and that's the end of it for me

I am an atheist too, but I'm not a dick about it and I do think that religious beliefs are worthy of respect.

On the other hand, being gay is a protected characteristic and rightly so.

I think, IMO, the distinction should be made between refusing to serve a customer because they're gay, and refusing to bake a cake which conveys a message which strongly clashes with your religious beliefs.

For example, if a gay couple came in, asked for a cake, and the owner refused to serve them at all because they're gay then that would be unacceptable, and the owner should be treated the same as if they had refused to serve someone on the grounds of race or gender.

If anybody, gay or not, comes in and asks a Christian, Muslim, Jew or whatever to bake a cake with a message on which was offensive to them, then IMO it would be acceptable for the baker to politely decline but offer to bake a cake without that message on.

I'm not sure what the law is here, I'm just giving my opinion.

That was my first thought when I heard the news this morning, ObfusKate, and I was disappointed because their stuff is lovely! I know I wouldn't enjoy it the same, though.....
But still, it seems to me the tolerant thing to do to allow them to bake whichever cakes they want.

Yet another 'Christian' based embarrassment for NI.

Seriously, the things the supposedly Godly people get away with over here is nuts.

I'm looking at you Peter Robinson. And you Iris.

Is the word "queer" causing an issue

Might that be the offensive foul language

Not saying it is before anyone yells at me, just that some people find that word offensive

I don't understand how you can compare being gay to being a Christian in any way.

You don't have a choice about being gay, you just are. You always have a choice about believing in a god.

I think the bakery are in the right. I think Pregnantberry summed it up perfectly. If a customer is refused because they are gay, they are being discriminated against. If the customers specific product is refused because the message it conveys clashes with the companies beliefs, that's up to the bakery.

Christians and gay people can be compared, in that they are two groups of people who have human rights associated with their status. Nobody's saying sexuality is like religion.

I think this is as discriminatory as a Gay baker refusing to decorate a cake with "Christ is Risen" (arf) as Christians disagree with him being gay.

It's petty and malicious - there's nothing offensive about the cake. It's not a cock cake.

What is the difference between a cake decorator refusing to decorate with swear words and this? Is there one? Is it just the queer space thing they refused? Or to make them a cake entirely?

So many questions.

I agree with pregnantberry.

FWIW, I also think the word "queer" is offensive and although it is one of those words which I believe has been "reclaimed" by the gay community I could also understand how using that word could be offensive.

I think the cake said "Support Gay Marriage". So it's more like a gay baker refusing to make a cake that said "Oppose Gay Marriage".
If I was a baker, I'd refuse to take the order for the latter cake. Would I be discriminating?

Interesting views. FWIW, I think it was the fact that the cake "promoted" homosexuality that they disagreed with. (I know that is a bad word, I can't think of a better one to describe what I mean).

In the video on the BBC link, the manager says that the cake was "at odds with our beliefs" and "in contradiction with what the Bible teaches".

One thing I don't think this is is "petty and malicious" - I think the bakery are very earnest and have thought long and hard about this decision.

I agree with those that say that refusing to make the cake is acceptable, refusing to serve the person is not.