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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that howling at people that they are racist is not...

590 replies

fidelineish · 23/04/2014 15:35

..the best way to challenge their thinking or change their views?

It crops up on here frequently and it is only going to become more frequent as UKIP campaigning steps up.

OP posts:
Anoriginalname · 25/04/2014 23:03

How's this one? My sister, objected to me calling her racist when she said 'I'm not coming to your wedding because I don't believe in mixed marriages' I asked her if she'd treat our child differently to his/her siblings, whose dad is born and bread italian btw. She said 'no, it's not the child's fault'. We haven't spoken since that conversation. Worst of it is she likes him and knows he makes me and my kids v happy!

Montegomongoose · 25/04/2014 23:04

I/we experienced verbal abuse, physical attacks, criminal damage

Me too.

I just refuse to classify the people I meet by their skin colour or make judgements thereby.

The earlier post where someone assumed my colour and made a judgment based on it pretty much sums up the prevailing tone, which I find infinitely depressing.

I'm stepping away from this thread now. Too entrenched and determined to keep beating away about the past

There is injustice and sadness everywhere. I am choosing to believe that most people are not racists.

Thanks for an enlightening debate and good to meet you all.

xpatmama · 25/04/2014 23:05

Ps no problem Amber

Removetheblinkers · 25/04/2014 23:06

My last offering for the night. If we want a racism free future we have to leave our racist past behind, dragging it along with us shall only serve to keep it current. Good night ladies.

AmberLeaf · 25/04/2014 23:07

this concept of white self hatred is a prevalent theory on neo nazi and white supremacist websites

Yep, they like to call them 'race traitors' too.

AmberLeaf, I never assumed you were black, I knew you were white, I just couldn't understand where the true issues you have towards white people were coming from. Now I know they're deep seated

Why did you ask if I were white or black then?

I don't have 'issues' towards white people, deep seated or otherwise.

Anoriginalname · 25/04/2014 23:08

Sorry, just to clarify my point, there are small minded people in this world, and the only way to treat them is stand firm. Incidentally we have a lovely polish girl at work, and an awful man who called her a communist on one occasion. I know who I prefer to have my morning cuppa and chat with.
How do they expect to remove all existing immigrants from England? And any one who feels UKIP have the right idea should watch 'the boy in striped pyjamas'

xpatmama · 25/04/2014 23:09

Remove - isn't it more that 'those you cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it'. George Santayana, a life of reason.

Jinsei · 25/04/2014 23:11

Jin, approximately 70 million people died in WW1 and 2, how can TENS OF MILLIONS of them be non-white. And I've got a small brain?

Yes, I'm afraid it would appear that your brain is rather limited. If you look properly at the stats, you will indeed find that tens of millions of non-white people died in the two world wars. So your assertion that only white people died now seems rather hollow, doesn't it?

xpatmama · 25/04/2014 23:13

Sorry typo 'who cannot'. Also said by Edmund Burke 'Those who don't know their history are doomed to repeat it'.

howrudeforme · 25/04/2014 23:18

Anor- people are baffling aren't they. i remember a man saying to me (referring to my ethic backgrounds) ffs you wouldn't mix an african and indian elephant. I really objected to the reference of elephant in relation to me. Your sister is equally baffling. I have seen a hard core of people who are happy with individual races/culture but not mixing.

This is your sister - I'm so sorry - must be hard.

I also remember being in a spanish bar - talking to a guy he assumed I was spanish - after about 10 mins my spanish vocab dried up and I was finding it hard to follow his conversation so asked him speak slowly. He was confused so I explained I was not spanish and could speak some of his language but not in depth. Could he speak more slowly for me. He then demanded to know my background. When I told him he made genuine sick noises!!! And then staggered off. He looked like he was suffering. I was not even offended. How can I be put down by a person who thinks mixed people are repulsive. It's beyond any logic!

Original poster
fidelineish · 25/04/2014 23:19

Anoriginal your sister sounds a horror. What a nasty situation Sad

OP posts:
Original poster
fidelineish · 25/04/2014 23:22

There is injustice and sadness everywhere. I am choosing to believe that most people are not racists.

I think you're right. I hope we both are.

Thanks for an enlightening debate and good to meet you all.

You too Monte

OP posts:
howrudeforme · 25/04/2014 23:25

"My last offering for the night. If we want a racism free future we have to leave our racist past behind, dragging it along with us shall only serve to keep it current. Good night ladies."

How ironic.......

Anoriginalname · 25/04/2014 23:31

She's not the worst person I've ever met, unfortunately. But I refuse to allow someone who has opinions like that influence my family, and I certainly don't expect oh to be in the same room as her. She still sends him gifts at Xmas and Easter, if she said to him 'I don't like you because you're black' and refused to acknowledge him he'd have a lot more respect for her. The irony is he's mixed race, Indian mum and Caribbean dad, but cos he's so dark no one notices the Indian. Sadly racism is learnt at home, and I don't think we can ever eradicate it. I understand UKIP isn't just about black and white, but if they only want the English in England I'm getting chucked out too, bit of a European mongrel me lol. It's all far too Harry potter!

Jinsei · 25/04/2014 23:36

How ironic.......

Yes indeed! :)

TillyTellTale · 26/04/2014 00:50

Remove

I wouldn't be offended to be called a cracker, the word has no meaning for me.

Doesn't that show you something? It has no force, and you don't even know what it means. I know it's American in origin, but that's only part of it. I doubt there are many black NT ten-year-olds in the country that aren't familiar with at least one US-origin racist epithet for black people.

TillyTellTale · 26/04/2014 01:15

Some easy figures, that are easy to analyse and don't require a calculator. If you look at the wikipedia page for the deaths in the Second World War.

"World War II was the deadliest military conflict in history. Over 60 million people were killed, which was over 2.5% of the world population. The tables below give a detailed country-by-country count of human losses."

China
military losses: 3,000,000 to 4,000,000
civilian deaths due to military activity and crimes against humanity: 7,000,000 to 11,000,000
civilian deaths due to war related-famine and disease: 5,000,000

They were world wars.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 26/04/2014 10:05

If you look properly at the stats, you will indeed find that tens of millions of non-white people died in the two world wars

Please could I ask you to clarify where exactly that was stated, since as far as I can see the spreadsheet doesn't appear to be broken down by skin colour? I could well be wrong here, but maybe those figures weren't even recorded at the time ...

I'm not making a judgment call one way or the other; I'm simply trying to find out what your assertion is based on

xpatmama · 26/04/2014 10:27

Chinese people count as non white. EG. As do Burmese, Indians, Africans (and the notes do say how many were eg white Zimbabweans or in Indonesia how many were the white population. I think you can assume that if the stats say civilians in 'non white' countries them they will be mostly non white!!!!

xpatmama · 26/04/2014 10:31

Look at the figures for India - minimum of 1.5 million dead. Some may have been white but v few, I find it a v weird question tbh puzzled

xpatmama · 26/04/2014 10:33

(Though of course any guesstimate will be super inaccurate but you definitely get well into the millions!!!!,)

BerniesBurneze · 26/04/2014 10:37

I would no more vote UKIP than piss next to a police car, but I absolutely disagree that those who vote UKIP are racist. A lot will just be ignorant anti-europe.

Jinsei · 26/04/2014 10:39

Please could I ask you to clarify where exactly that was stated, since as far as I can see the spreadsheet doesn't appear to be broken down by skin colour? I could well be wrong here, but maybe those figures weren't even recorded at the time ...

You're quite right, there is no actual breakdown. We don't know, for example, what percentage of US deaths were black Americans. We also don't know what percentage of the huge number of Soviet casualties were non-white. However, I think we can make reasonable assumptions that the majority of deaths in certain countries overwhelmingly involved people of Asian descent - China, Japan, Korea etc. We know that large numbers of African troops were killed in both wars, often fighting as part of the British or French armies. Then there were the large numbers of Roma killed in Europe by the Nazis. Even allowing for some uncertainty, it's pretty clear that the victims of the two world wars were not exclusively white!

Martorana · 26/04/2014 10:40

I think that somfpple on here must have heard when young and not realized it was supposed to be funny.............

sarinka · 26/04/2014 11:34

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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