to think that howling at people that they are racist is not...

[fidelineish]

..the best way to challenge their thinking or change their views?

It crops up on here frequently and it is only going to become more frequent as UKIP campaigning steps up.

I don't think that the UK is in a place to discuss how best to balance its books in relation to immigration given the recession and our current govt's lead on dividing our society.

So true. This gov't have done so much harm and whipped up so much fear and hatred.

I thought the thread was about to go boom then. Still holding my breath....

You've ascertained that every non-Londoner in this country poses a racist threat to you?

No I haven't, I have explained that my and my families direct experience of racism in such places [and I didn't say every non londoner, IME other major cities with diverse populations are not as racist] is such that I/we did not/would not feel safe there. The level of threat is too high.

I'm not white and I don't live in London and I refuse to be paralysed by paranoia. Nor would I presume to make sweeping generalisations about great swathes of my fellow citizens

I wasn't paralysed by paranoia. I/we experienced verbal abuse, physical attacks, criminal damage, one of my children was even told by a teacher that it was his fault that one of his classmates called him a nigger.

I know that not every single person was racist, but the numbers that were, were too high for me to continue living there.

There was no paralysis, I called time on it and moved back to London.

I'm rather shocked by what you said. To write off all those potential friends because they are a different colour

I avoided friendships with racists, who wouldn't?

I made friends and remain friends with some who weren't. They were white, like me.

AmberLeaf, it all makes sense now. You've been vehemently arguing throughout on racism to the point where as a white person myself I was quite offended. To say that racism doesn't exist for white people and being white yourself is absurd. I appreciate you have a black partner and sons and you're looking out for them but it's almost as if you despise yourself for being white.

Fide, sorry non got a someone teething ATM,

(I am not going to come across well, but I hope you can see though this)

I said it could be loaded due to many arguments discussions on here/the internet and rl. I agree with jinsie's post to an extent that it has brought a lot of the twats out of the woodwork and yes ukip have been a springboard for these idiots, however i feel it is somewhat loaded with regards to islamophobic,
Being critical of aspects of a religion isn't being islamophobic (yes daily hate et el are shit stirring) but it has become the defacto that any form of criticism is automatically racist, we currently have young women in the uk prepared to do this in the name of religion, also where was the posts about the Birmingham schools(even though it has a possibility of being bollocks), either denouncing or critiquing the story.

Racism is alive and well but as this topic is about, shouting racism at the drop of a hat is not productive, and the fear to discuss issues because it may be perceived racist is not productive.

Jin, as you appreciate there's A LOT of numbers in the link, I don't have a calculator or the inclination to work out the percentage. Can we just agree on the vast majority being white rather than a number?

fide- there are problems - but now isn't the time to discuss them in a rational way. We're in such a bad place.

I'm worried about my dm - she doesn't live near me. In the last 10 years the racial abuse she got has increased lots - by white migrants. However, UKip isn't my answer. But being there with her and screaming back at racists is - but I'm not there. I worry about her.

I fear for this country these days. There was a time I thought that with discussion and time things could get resolved slowly slowly. Don't think that now - just a time bomb- everyone is at each others' throats. Horrible.

But I do also think that the labour version of multiculturalism was very scewed. - naff - that entire thing that my school does where the parents are 'proud' to know people of other cultures. Jeez - where they been? I grew up partly outside london and we weren't 'proud' to know people of other cultures and, believe me, we were considered such an unusual family but they weren't 'proud' to know us. Just rubbed along. Normal - totally normal and that's not in London.

Mixing with other cultures these days is like wearing a badge of honour and I find that totally naff - see loads of it on here. I don't get it at all.

Remove of course the other explanation could be that whatever Amber has experienced is so much less than she's seen for her sons and families rather than having somehow sold out on white people.

Subconsciously or not you obviously think she's 'gone native' that's how the English colonials used to describe people who got too close to the locals.

Or maybe remove you should accept her experience which you seem to think is somehow not valid because it doesn't chime with your beliefs.

Xpat, colonials? FFS.

How can society ever be 'modern' if so many people live in the past.

AmberLeaf, it all makes sense now. You've been vehemently arguing throughout on racism to the point where as a white person myself I was quite offended

Why were you offended when you assumed I was black?

I haven't been arguing, I have been explaining my point and answering the many questions you put to me. There is no argument, this is a discussion. If you could get over your personal offence at what people have been saying, you might actually learn something.

To say that racism doesn't exist for white people and being white yourself is absurd. I appreciate you have a black partner and sons and you're looking out for them but it's almost as if you despise yourself for being white

It is because I am white, but with black family whos experiences I can compare to, that I can see that racism doesn't exist towards white people.

I said I grew up in a mixed race family, my experiences of the issue of racism goes back further than my adult relationship/parenting experiences.

Acknowledging white privilege/insititutional racism as a white person, does not mean I despise myself for being white, what a ridiculous thing to say, but TBH, from you, not surprising.

Remove you just provided a clear example in fact of how past attitudes spill over. I called you out showing how you had echoed past attitudes. And that particular term had certainly been used in living memory.

This is what you are fundamentally not getting - much of the past is still having a massive impact. Yes there have been major advances but it's ridiculous to claim that the history of slavery or colonialism has no bearing on how people experience racism in Britain today.

Xpat, all I want is to get out of the EU and stop the open door immigration policy. That's it. AmberLeaf took exception to a UKIP policy about prioritising local housing saying it's racist against British black people and it's snowballed from there.

I don't have issues with skin colour or ethnicity or race or anything, I just want to get on with my life in the country I LOVE.

Thank you xpatmama

Jin, as you appreciate there's A LOT of numbers in the link, I don't have a calculator or the inclination to work out the percentage. Can we just agree on the vast majority being white rather than a number?

Too much for your little brain, was it?

I'm afraid I cannot agree that "the vast majority" were white, and I cannot get my head around how anyone could possibly regard the deaths of tens of millions of non-white people as "negligible", which is the word that you used earlier. Unless of course the person using that word was so racist that they didn't think those non-white lives were worth counting.

Actually even more disturbing remove, this concept of white self hatred is a prevalent theory on neo nazi and white supremacist websites... Is that really what you want to be doing?

AmberLeaf, I never assumed you were black, I knew you were white, I just couldn't understand where the true issues you have towards white people were coming from. Now I know they're deep seated.

That may be true remove but throughout this thread you've done all you can to downplay the fact that actually there are significant racial issues going on.

Mixing with other cultures these days is like wearing a badge of honour and I find that totally naff - see loads of it on here. I don't get it at all.

Yep. Buttock clenching (and proves we are nowehere near 'there' -wherever there is- yet)

I just couldn't understand where the true issues you have towards white people were coming from. Now I know they're deep seated.

FFS

AmberLeaf took exception to a UKIP policy about prioritising local housing saying it's racist against British black people and it's snowballed from there

This thread is about the best, most effective way to challenge racism.

The OP argued that reasoned explanations would surely be more effective than 'howling' racist.

I have written many reasoned explanatory posts, No howling.

For those who wish to remain wilfully ignorant, the outcome is the same whether you shout racist at them, or do what I have been doing on this thread.

Xpat, so I'm now a white supremacist? Jesus.

For those who wish to remain wilfully ignorant, the outcome is the same whether you shout racist at them, or do what I have been doing on this thread.

Sadly, I think you're right. The proof is right here. People will see what they want to see, and edit out the rest

Remove I didn't say that. I said that's the people that use those terms and that you shd be aware of that.

Jin, approximately 70 million people died in WW1 and 2, how can TENS OF MILLIONS of them be non-white. And I've got a small brain?