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Original poster

DD behaved abysmally and need to vent

322 replies

Innish22 · Yesterday 19:57

My DB looked after both of my DCs at the weekend and DD (11) and himself had a falling out. DB was furious when dropping them back and said outright that he won’t be looking after her again.
I don’t blame him and I’m very disappointed in her, but I also know that my brother holds grudges for ever, which means that this will cause friction for the wider family.
DD is digging in her heels and refuses to apologise, but she seemed upset this evening and I think that she is ashamed and will come around.
That’s it. I just needed to vent because it’s the last thing I needed to start the week.

OP posts:
Bitsostuff · Yesterday 23:48

CorkedWellbeing · Yesterday 22:37

Honestly, I think a lot of comments here are OTT. Eleven year olds are kids who have the ability to zero in on pressure points without really thinking about the consequences for the person they're being awful to, or for themselves.
She definitely needs to apologise, and her current behaviour does sound like she's locked in a shame spiral, but I would question what did he say to her first?
Because if he is a wind-up merchant, he might have hit a nerve with her first. I know what she said is extreme, but men who have banter and tease young kids are doing so from a really elevated platform in terms of experience and ability. She's gone too far, but him acting like she has mortally wounded him is pathetic. As an adult with a leadership role in her life, and someone who seems to like a bit of verbal sparring, he should have sucked his teeth and said "Woah! No, that's too far, mate. I know you don't mean it, but that's a really horrible thing to say and a properly dangerous accusation to make even if you're joking about."

That's it.
He didn't need to drag out her shame and embarrassment and he definitely didn't need to make a big deal of cutting off their relationship.
He sounds like a right knob.

No he doesn't. Gay men have been beaten, hounded out of their homes and even killed on the strength of throwaway accusations such as this. He needs to think very carefully about whether the relationship is worth the risk and should strongly consider giving her a wide berth until she's a lot older.

JayTea · Yesterday 23:49

Innish22 · Yesterday 22:34

Of course I spoke to her immediately, but the issue is not resolved and it will be resolved until she understands what she has actually done by saying this.

Not sure why I am being accused of excusing her behaviour which I stated has been horrific.
And electronics have already been taken away because the initial disagreement had once again been about the damn iPad. But confiscating electronics wont cut it.

I would be thinking about the broader messaging she is getting about gay people and how you can combat that.

I don’t think she would be too young to watch some documentaries/shows about historic gay rights for example (with you of course) and general discussions about understanding prejudice against various marginalized groups, not just gay people.

saraclara · Yesterday 23:50

Cakeandcoffee445 · Yesterday 22:02

She was nasty but she's 11. She was trying to get a reaction, she won't understand the full implications of what she said.

Your brother is being ridiculous. Yes, he should be angry but to hold a grudge against an 11 year old is dramatic and stupid.

Why are you only empathising with the girl, and not with DB?

What she said was exceptionally cruel, and brought with, considerable risk to him. If he's fun uncle and goes to the trouble of doing lots of lovely things with them, including outings, apart from anything else, that would be incredibly hurtful. And the outings are clearly never going to happen again, while he thinks she could accuse him of goodness knows what, without foundation.

I agree that she probably doesn't understand the full implications of what she said, but jeeze, that poor guy. My granddaughters are lucky enough to have the most loving and caring fun uncles, and I can't begin to imagine their hurt and devastating if they were on the receiving end of those words.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Families
Mischance · Yesterday 23:53

I would sit her down and spell out - in excruciating detail - what a paedophile is. ... to an 11 year old? For goodness sake. Get a grip.

This child has said something in anger when she cannot have an adult grasp of the implications as she is not an adult.

Forcing inappropriate detail on her is abusive.

If I understand it right she said he likes little boys. Of course that will hit a nerve for him because he understands the implications; she is a child and does not. This needs careful handling for this child's sake.

viques · Today 00:00

She is 11 and while what she said about your DB is awful I think you need to sit her down and talk through where she got it from and why she said it because I assume she hasn’t heard it from your family and she hasn’t invented it as a slur by herself. Someone, probably at school has said it, maybe about your brother or maybe randomly against gay men in general.

She needs to understand the seriousness of what she said and what can happen when men (gay or straight) who are wrongly accused of being paedophiles , how it can be used against them , can be used as an excuse to beat them up, get them sacked, forced to move home. Reassure her that you are not condoning paedophilia but are confronting homophobia.

AnnoyedAsAllHeck · Today 00:27

Bitsostuff · Yesterday 23:48

No he doesn't. Gay men have been beaten, hounded out of their homes and even killed on the strength of throwaway accusations such as this. He needs to think very carefully about whether the relationship is worth the risk and should strongly consider giving her a wide berth until she's a lot older.

Show quote history

This is what made me shudder. What if they had been at a football game, where men have a tendancy to drink a bit and he told her to settle down or something, and she piped up with that comment? It could have tragic consequences. Luckily, it did not, but the young preteen needs to learn the truth as to what can happen with that type of insinuation, even if said as mad or joking.

My feeling is, if they are old enough to use the word as an insult, they are old enough to learn about Matthew Shepard, Jody Dobrowski, Samuel Muniz and the couple Ben and Jordan.

What she said, in the wrong place, could have had a dire outcome and I truly hope she can learn from this.

squarecrow · Today 00:40

Shiningtwinklinglights · Yesterday 23:46

No I’m not assuming anything, the comment I quoted assumed some things and I asked if we knew them to be true. I’m not sure if we’re perhaps missing some nuance between us in this conversation
im going to bow out of the conversation at this point because im not ‘ trying to turn this’ into anything, I’m trying to say I think it’s important to check if the child is ok and confirm it was not a genuine disclosure (even about someone else!) before punishing them. And whilst some pp including you disagree with me, it doesn’t sound so far like that has been sufficiently done to me. I am in no way suggesting it is a true accusation, simply that there’s no harm in checking a child is ok, better safe than sorry with child safeguarding as far as I am concerned. I’ve also said repeatedly that if you find that child is lying you should absolutely punish them and also educate them on this matter and the history of how gay men have been treated. I really don’t know how any of that is homophobic, We’ll just have to agree to disagree.

Show quote history

I agree with this. Withdrawing disclosures of abuse or knowledge of abuse is extremely common. Around 1 in 3 children will be sexually abused by the time they reach 18. I’m shocked by the attitudes on this thread. Safeguarding first, make a plan of how you’re going to deal with whatever you’ve found out after.

INeverReallyLovedYouAnyway · Today 00:49

I mean it’s obviously a terrible thing to say and she needs to be educated. But your average 11 year old is not going to be aware of the potential ramifications for your brother. She’s not going to understand the seriousness (until you explain it to her and even then she probably won’t grasp the enormity until she is emotionally mature). Even if she knows what the word means, she doesn’t have the life experience to understand what that could mean for him. There is no context.

Teens and preteens are self centred idiots. I have two of them myself.

MyCatsAreFuckwitts · Today 00:49

Wow, I'd keep your daughter away from your brother for your brothers sake
Unacceptable

Bitsostuff · Today 01:06

Where are you getting your 1 in 3 figure from @squarecrow ? I can't find a reputable source that puts it that high.

Mistachio · Today 01:15

What a nasty child.

ProudWomanXX · Today 01:16

Innish22 · Yesterday 20:17

They usually get on well, but there is the occasional bickering and moaning (I mean she is 11). He’s definitely their fun adult who takes them to do stuff that they really enjoy.

My DB is gay which is no secret, and she basically accused him of being a paedophile (liking little boys). Long story short is that he sometimes looks after a friend’s son and I think that DD might just be jealous.

I have spoken to her and she said that she said it because she was angry at being told off, so I won’t be excusing her behaviour. Yes, I have explained to her how serious such comments are and that they should never be said unless true. As I said she is upset and I think she feels ashamed but this has really gotten to me.

Right now I can’t blame him for being angry.

Wow.

So you have basically ignored what your DD has said, to you, about him.

You've sided with your DB.

How do you know your DB isn't doing what your DD has said to you, about him?

WHY are you disbelieving your DD, over your DB?

squarecrow · Today 01:26

Bitsostuff · Today 01:06

Where are you getting your 1 in 3 figure from @squarecrow ? I can't find a reputable source that puts it that high.

The office for national statistics puts it at 29% but it is also well known that many people never tell anyone so the true figures are harder to ascertain.

squarecrow · Today 01:28

I do think that the worst that could come from talking to the DD calmly is that you have a proper conversation and decide on consequences, so what on earth is the harm in that?

It’s going to be very hard to get the truth now you’ve been furious, already punished her and used phrases like “you could ruin his life”.

aurynne · Today 01:47

Does your DD love her uncle?

If so, she needs to know that what she's said to him is so serious, that it has the potential to have destroyed the friendship and love he has for her. This may be the only thing that makes it real for her.

I am not sure I would ever want to see or spend time again with any 11 year old who has accused me of being a pedophile.

WallaceinAnderland · Today 02:16

I have spoken to her and she said that she said it because she was angry at being told off

So she was being told off for something else? What was she doing in the first place that she needed to be reprimanded? It's important to get the whole story I think.

NapsForTheWin · Today 02:19

WallaceinAnderland · Today 02:16

I have spoken to her and she said that she said it because she was angry at being told off

So she was being told off for something else? What was she doing in the first place that she needed to be reprimanded? It's important to get the whole story I think.

OP said something about a dispute over iPad time.

BrickMaker · Today 02:24

I really feel for you. What a horrible situation that probably only time will heal. Although I would say your DD has lost a great uncle. A cruel but important life lesson for her on the damage of slander.

Missey85 · Today 02:40

JLou08 · Yesterday 20:22

I'd initially thought your brother was pathetic to be arguing with an 11 year old and holding a grudge, he probably is a bit pathetic given you say they bicker. That's a serious remark she made though, I'd be uncomfortable spending time alone with a child who'd say something like that.

I'm on your brother's side sorry your daughter's a bitch she knew what she was saying she's not a baby ☹️

Missey85 · Today 02:45

INeverReallyLovedYouAnyway · Today 00:49

I mean it’s obviously a terrible thing to say and she needs to be educated. But your average 11 year old is not going to be aware of the potential ramifications for your brother. She’s not going to understand the seriousness (until you explain it to her and even then she probably won’t grasp the enormity until she is emotionally mature). Even if she knows what the word means, she doesn’t have the life experience to understand what that could mean for him. There is no context.

Teens and preteens are self centred idiots. I have two of them myself.

Oh bullshit of course she knew what she was saying to her uncle! If I was him I'd never want to see her again comments like she made can ruin someones life

TouchMyBumThisIsLife · Today 02:46

She is old enough to obey the power of the gay. Does she not watch tv?

Missey85 · Today 02:49

saraclara · Yesterday 23:50

Why are you only empathising with the girl, and not with DB?

What she said was exceptionally cruel, and brought with, considerable risk to him. If he's fun uncle and goes to the trouble of doing lots of lovely things with them, including outings, apart from anything else, that would be incredibly hurtful. And the outings are clearly never going to happen again, while he thinks she could accuse him of goodness knows what, without foundation.

I agree that she probably doesn't understand the full implications of what she said, but jeeze, that poor guy. My granddaughters are lucky enough to have the most loving and caring fun uncles, and I can't begin to imagine their hurt and devastating if they were on the receiving end of those words.

Show quote history

This is Mumsnet it's the man's fault always even when it's not 😂

Emaraldisland · Today 03:05

Innish22 · Yesterday 22:34

Of course I spoke to her immediately, but the issue is not resolved and it will be resolved until she understands what she has actually done by saying this.

Not sure why I am being accused of excusing her behaviour which I stated has been horrific.
And electronics have already been taken away because the initial disagreement had once again been about the damn iPad. But confiscating electronics wont cut it.

What consequences will? I mean if it definitely isn't true I'm not sure what consequences you could give that would make a difference.
What is the reason for her refusing to apologise? That rings alarm bells a bit, is it because she thinks she's right? Until you find out exactly why she said what she did I don't think you can decide on a punishment.
If she was just saying it because she was angry then she needs educating on why she can't say that and she could easily ruin her uncles life with lies like that. I wouldn't make her apologise. A forced apology isn't a true apology. Once she is truly sorry she should write to your brother apologising and promising she'll never tell lies like that again. Whether your brother accepts the apology or not is up to him. Either way I don't doubt he won't babysit her again.

Imisschampagne · Today 05:06

Mischance · Yesterday 23:53

I would sit her down and spell out - in excruciating detail - what a paedophile is. ... to an 11 year old? For goodness sake. Get a grip.

This child has said something in anger when she cannot have an adult grasp of the implications as she is not an adult.

Forcing inappropriate detail on her is abusive.

If I understand it right she said he likes little boys. Of course that will hit a nerve for him because he understands the implications; she is a child and does not. This needs careful handling for this child's sake.

Absolutely no.

she‘s 11. she has access to electronics. She’s at school. Want to know what happens if she repeats her accusations online or to a teacher? Her uncle will be investigated. Which is theoretically a good thing but in this case it would be absolutely awful.

she needs to understand the severity of what she has done. And this also includes explaining to her the weight of her words. That pedos abuse children. That they destroy their victims psyche. That they are the lowest of the lowest in prison and will be treated as such. You don’t have to give a rundown of the violence. But it needs to be clear of how damming her accusations were.

and her uncle would be well advised to not babysit her anymore.

@op what did your other kid say? Did they get any insight of the fight?

SulkySeagull · Today 05:51

Massive drip feed with what actually happened. Yea your daughter has behaved abysmally and your brother would be right to hold a grudge! And why won’t she apologise?