DD behaved abysmally and need to vent

[Innish22]

My DB looked after both of my DCs at the weekend and DD (11) and himself had a falling out. DB was furious when dropping them back and said outright that he won’t be looking after her again.
I don’t blame him and I’m very disappointed in her, but I also know that my brother holds grudges for ever, which means that this will cause friction for the wider family.
DD is digging in her heels and refuses to apologise, but she seemed upset this evening and I think that she is ashamed and will come around.
That’s it. I just needed to vent because it’s the last thing I needed to start the week.

That is awful but not totally unforgivable from a child. She needs to show remorse and apologise to him. Part of him is probably worried at the thought this is the sort of rumour being spread about him. I doubt it is though, I bet it's a silly throwaway comment designed to shock him and she didn't realise the effect it would have. It will be a good lesson in when to keep your mouth shut. Most of us have to learn this one way or another. It does sound stressful though, sorry OP.

I can absolutely guarantee he wouldn’t use that word, sorry but I can 100% say that…he’s more likely to call someone a twat, his older brother annoys him all the time, really bugs him to the point he loses his temper and he’s never called him a paedo.
He was part of a really nice group of lads in primary school, studious and sporty and can’t see any of them saying it perhaps it depends on the group of kids…
Hes now at a grammar school, started in September, I can’t see them yelling it in the playground there either!

Of course I spoke to her immediately, but the issue is not resolved and it will be resolved until she understands what she has actually done by saying this.

Not sure why I am being accused of excusing her behaviour which I stated has been horrific.
And electronics have already been taken away because the initial disagreement had once again been about the damn iPad. But confiscating electronics wont cut it.

Wow, that’s bad! She definitely needs to apologise as a minimum. I wouldn’t blame your brother for not wanting anything to do with her though.

Honestly, I think a lot of comments here are OTT. Eleven year olds are kids who have the ability to zero in on pressure points without really thinking about the consequences for the person they're being awful to, or for themselves.
She definitely needs to apologise, and her current behaviour does sound like she's locked in a shame spiral, but I would question what did he say to her first?
Because if he is a wind-up merchant, he might have hit a nerve with her first. I know what she said is extreme, but men who have banter and tease young kids are doing so from a really elevated platform in terms of experience and ability. She's gone too far, but him acting like she has mortally wounded him is pathetic. As an adult with a leadership role in her life, and someone who seems to like a bit of verbal sparring, he should have sucked his teeth and said "Woah! No, that's too far, mate. I know you don't mean it, but that's a really horrible thing to say and a properly dangerous accusation to make even if you're joking about."

That's it.
He didn't need to drag out her shame and embarrassment and he definitely didn't need to make a big deal of cutting off their relationship.
He sounds like a right knob.

That turned round pretty quick didnt it 😉

I get that.

I really hope your daughter is sorry for saying that but the relationship will take time to repair. He must recognise she is only 11 and kids do blurt out things that they pick up.

Phew! This is a hard one for you, Innish, and I am sorry.

I don’t blame him I would not speak to her either what an awful thing for a child to even think of saying to someone.

Wow.............what an absolutely terrible thing to say. Unforgivable.

Well, context is somewhat important here.
it sounds very much like it was something she said to get back at her uncle because he was telling her off.

Kids say things but she clearly needs to realise that words hurt and can cause people terrible upset.
Words have huge power and that is something she needs to learn.
Lashing out because she is jealous instead of using her words has caused her uncle to be very upset.
These things can take multiple conversations to drive home the point you want to make.

Well that’s their relationship damaged probably forever. Aside from making her apologise and giving her a very harsh lesson in false accusations, I wouldn’t even bother trying to smooth things over. She may only be 11 but it’s borderline unforgivable.

Ah - she’s 11. She thinks she’s really mature and she thinks saying that sort of thing makes her sound big and clever. Which of course, it doesn’t - it makes her sound young and very silly.

I would sit her down and spell out - in excruciating detail - what a paedophile is. What one might do and examples of that. I would then ask her if she really thought that was an appropriate label for your brother - and then be very, very explicit about the potential consequences for him if anyone heard her and believed her. Time for some uncomfortable home truths. Hopefully then she will feel the need to apologise - sincerely- and you can all move forward.

👏

The height of being adult - making false sexual abuse allegations

Your poor brother. He'll be feeling

1. Betrayed by somebody he loves making foul accusations to him
2. Terrified because these are the kind of accusations that have legs of their own. If rumours spread about him being a paedophile, they will never be quashed and could destroy his life
3. This could destroy his relationship with his niece, whom he l9ves and presumably was expecting to be a huge part of his life for ever
4. As you say, this has the potential to cause a wider family rift which could also last a very long time

It's going to take a lot of careful sensitive communication to fix this. Good luck OP

She's over the age for criminal responsibility and has committed a hate crime. So if she doesn't understand the seriousness of what she's said someone needs to explain it to her pretty damn quickly.

I mean in an open environment, being out for food etc, this could have had drastic consequences for your brother!!

I think this is a very thoughtful and well articulated post. Even if an 11 year old knows what a pedo is on a 'could give a dictionary definition' level they cannot truly understand the profound weight of what they are accusing someone of. Kids are learning social boundaries as they go. If (and it is an if but I'm looking back at what my uncles were like and can totally see it) he has said something which touched on something she is self conscious about and she's lashed out that is understandable. She needs now to be made aware that this realy crosses the line and of the seriousness of the accusation and to apologise sincerely but do try and find out what prompted this because he may not have been treating her with much respect either. If he can't forgive a child's first offence with a sincere apology he's being petty. This isn't a co-worker or whatever who has said this to him but a child who looks up to him for guidance. It would be cruel to punish her by permenantly withdrawing a family relationship she values.

Since she's so far refused to apologise, the sincerity of any subsequent apology is going to be hard to establish. Its going to look very much like a grudging apology that she's been forced to make by her parents

It's mad to me that people are saying this is unforgivable (and I say this as a lesbian who is well versed on the impact of the word paedo on gay men). She is 11. Unfortunately, 11 year olds sometimes say horrible things in the heat of the moment. She obviously knows the meaning of the word, but it's unlikely she fully understands the gravity of it in the context of lgbt history, or truly understands what the social consequences of saying it might be. I've worked in schools and kids do sometimes bandy about the word paedo without much thought.

I'd suggest educating her on why that word is especially harmful to gay men, and obviously on the wider consequences. I'd recommend the recent BBC drama Tiptoe, but she's far too young to watch it. Once she truly understands what she's said and why it's hurtful, she will hopefully want to say sorry.

Your brother is entitled to feel hurt and angry, but honestly in this position I'd be sitting her down and talking to her, not cutting an 11 year old child out of my life. 11 year olds deserve the chance to learn and repair.

Again this could be because she doesn't understand why what she has said is so bad. I had an older cousin who used to regularly make playful rude jokes about my height, I then once made a joke about her gaining weight and she got really upset and my mum gave me a bollocking. This felt super unfair to me and I refused to apologise. I was 10 and didn't understand that she was in and out of treatment for EDs. Kids understanding isn't the same as adults.

I mean, this is fucking disgusting behaviour.

Like, seriously.

You need to repair your relationship with your db now.

They do but there is so much at stake for the brother, I can't blame him if he is never alone with her for a good few years to come.

No I’m not assuming anything, the comment I quoted assumed some things and I asked if we knew them to be true. I’m not sure if we’re perhaps missing some nuance between us in this conversation
im going to bow out of the conversation at this point because im not ‘ trying to turn this’ into anything, I’m trying to say I think it’s important to check if the child is ok and confirm it was not a genuine disclosure (even about someone else!) before punishing them. And whilst some pp including you disagree with me, it doesn’t sound so far like that has been sufficiently done to me. I am in no way suggesting it is a true accusation, simply that there’s no harm in checking a child is ok, better safe than sorry with child safeguarding as far as I am concerned. I’ve also said repeatedly that if you find that child is lying you should absolutely punish them and also educate them on this matter and the history of how gay men have been treated. I really don’t know how any of that is homophobic, We’ll just have to agree to disagree.