DD behaved abysmally and need to vent

[Innish22]

My DB looked after both of my DCs at the weekend and DD (11) and himself had a falling out. DB was furious when dropping them back and said outright that he won’t be looking after her again.
I don’t blame him and I’m very disappointed in her, but I also know that my brother holds grudges for ever, which means that this will cause friction for the wider family.
DD is digging in her heels and refuses to apologise, but she seemed upset this evening and I think that she is ashamed and will come around.
That’s it. I just needed to vent because it’s the last thing I needed to start the week.

I'd never let your brother lol k after any of your DC again in case your DD makes another allegation. With no evidence your DD sounds like a nasty piece of work. At 11 she knows full well what she said was wrong.

Just on a logical common sense level, how would she be privy to information about another little boy that her uncle looks after who is the son of a friend of his? It's not as if he looks after the two of them together. I think the people who are suggesting there is some truth to it might be some of the many mumsnetters who think gay men are an automatic danger to kids.

She’s a child. Why is her uncle so unempathic? She is probably exposed to all these words (without having much in depth knowledge of them) at school/ life. Maybe she just needs a gentle and informative conversation and no guilt-tripping. The shame will affect her more than him. He sounds very immature.

I think some people on MN are very naive about what pre-teens know. If this acusation is being slung out by a bratty 11 year old she probably knows exactly what she's saying and its possible consequences. She needs metaphorically stamping on or she will enjoy the power these words give her.

If she feels any shame at all it won't affect her anywhere near as much as her nastiness could affect her uncle. What's 'immature' about not wanting to have poisonous allegations made about oneself?

This is exactly the reason I wouldn't advise people to look after orher people's kids.

Poor brother was being helpful, now he is a suspected criminal.

I also think that her school should be made aware of her propensity to make unfounded allegations against men in case a male teacher tells her off and she tries it there.

Alarm bells going here Op.

what does that accusation look like from him? A grown adult. “Liking little boys”. Was that the exact words. Was it said in anger? What was the context?

and from the other side? That’s not a standard fall out. Why is your concern more his drama with the wider family. Why would your daughter say such a thing in jealousy? Why would he take it so personally?

think about it logically.

would she scream at you the same remark. In anger. Or a mum friend who has boys.

I don’t think it’s as straightforward as dismissing it for
him being dramatic
her being jealous
or anything else.

it’s a serious serious allegation. Which needs the proper story.

my brother is gay. My daughters, four of them, would never say such a thing in anger. More like your toys are rubbish. You are boring.

if they did say it he wouldn’t react in that way. If it was a standard fall out. Oh you like her or him more than me.

Whether she understands the full context or not (and the fact that he other child was mentioned suggests she may), she was nasty. His upset and anger may lessen over time, but he would be mad to babysit for her again.

I originally posted advising op to educate her daughter on why this is particularly offensive to say to her gay brother and to teach her daughter about the history of this.

however I don’t think we can ignore all accusations against gay men for fear of being homophobic. Surely you still investigate the accusation and then if / when found to be a lie, teach dd why it was so abhorrent. However I also don’t think we can expect an 11 yr old (who absolutely should know better still!) to understand all of the nuance here and the history around that accusation.

Your daughter is incredibly dangerous. Your brother - nor any adult male - should go anywhere near her ever again. You need to come down hard on this because this could be catastrophic for your brother. Do you understand that or will you continue to make excuses?

Oh right did op say the two children have never met and have no friends in common? Fair enough if she did, I didn’t see that. We also don’t know that this is what the comment was in relation to do we? I thought that’s just ops guess?
absolutely wild to accuse me of homophobia because I’ve said just check your daughter is definitely ok before punishing and educating her on this issue.

Sadly your brother must protect himself and yes, no more babysitting. He cannot be near children that accuse him of this simply as payback for being told off and no, this isn't just holding a grudge. It could destroy him. I am not sure your daughter would even really understand fully what she's said being just 11, but it's still quite cruel.

I don't think an apology will cut it. So sorry OP, this is a right mess for you.

I also know that my brother holds grudges for ever, which means that this will cause friction for the wider family.

Given what she said to him he’s both within his rights and sensible to never forget it and to keep a distance between himself and your DD. Your phrasing about “friction” as if he’s the one in the wrong is extremely naff in the circumstances.

It's not interesting at all. If the child had gone to her mother with her concerns then the response would be very different. It's pretty unlikely she has some genuine concerns and decided that the best way to deal with them was to confront her uncle.

Oh OP, what a horrible position to be in — I can see why you're disappointed in her and also worried about the wider family fallout.
For what it's worth, I think you're right not to try to force an apology out of her tonight while everyone's still raw. I'd give it a day or two, then sit her down properly when she's calm and explain, in plain terms, why those words are so serious — not just 'being rude', but an accusation that can genuinely damage someone. At 11 she's old enough to understand that, even if she only said it because she was angry.
Then I'd ask her how she thinks she can make it right with her uncle — a proper face-to-face apology, not a mumbled sorry, and maybe letting him decide whether he wants to see her for a bit. And I'd tell your brother directly that you're taking it seriously and that you don't blame him for being upset. He's hurt, and knowing that will probably help him let it go sooner than anything else.
Hope the dust settles soon.

She could have said it to be hurtful, she could have said it because there’s some truth in it. We don’t know, but in OP’s position I’d be making sure.

This is a child - they use words that they do not fully understand.

In any event she did not say he was a paedo apparently - she simply said he liked little boys because she was jealous. And everything has blown up arouind her. She will be totally confused and frightened.

You need to be by her side OP and help her navigate this minefield which will be totally incomprehensible to her. Poor kid.

Precisely this, the tone of this thread is concerning - “Oh, these nasty little girls with their bigotry and false allegations”

Is there a chance she's trying to disclose something? Even if the perpetrator is not your db?

I teach secondary and the younger year groups (7,8,9) in particular use this term very commonly as an insult. So an 11 year old would probably be very familiar with the word.

This is the way it’s coming across to me too. The insistence that there is a grain of truth in it is ridiculous when the child has admitted to making the comment in anger after being told off, and the fact that as you say, she wouldn’t be privy to that information anyway.

That is totally shocking. Quite unforgiveable I'd say. I can't see how an apology even if it was forthcoming could be the end of this.

Whether she understands it or not, I wouldn't be looking after your DD again either, to protect myself. In fact, if I were another family member and knew DD had said this about your brother, I wouldn't look after her in case I'm next in line.

I'd ask her why she said this, talk to her about how this is not a throw away comment and very serious and why, and be prepared not to have any willing child minders in future.

Do they truly understand what it means and the implications of using that word?

IN any event it seems she did not use the word, but simply said he likes little boys.