Labour isn't Working - Thread 41

[Nuthatch26]

A chat thread for those who don't like this Labour government. 💙

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

Previous thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5575770-labour-isnt-working-thread-40?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

Eh? Except it is. They made that up about him same as others have made up things about others. It’s exactly the same thing. Plus look at Starmer and the accusations of paedophilia thrown at him.

No, the pp was right. This was political and about facts known. It was not scurrilous rumour.

Why do they have to be ‘private life’ specific for you? So as long as it isn’t a sex scandal, then it’s fair game? Is that how the right wing supporters explain away the lies they peddle?

I do remember. I am aware of the things he has said and done very well, including calling them ‘friends’ and how he explained that and his condemnation of Hamas, Hezbollah and October 7th and his long history of supporting Jewish communities. Clearly, you are not aware of those things so and have already decided your thoughts.

Ah Okay, so accusing someone of something very heinous is acceptable as long as it’s not a sex scandal. And the lies about Starmer were fine clearly, as you haven’t mentioned them. The other poster was right, you guys are so one sided, can’t see the wood for the tree and manipulate things to suit your narrative. It’s crazy, Farage would be so proud of you all.

Who was it who walked out on a political debate recently? Ah yes, a very left wing Matthew Laza. Very open to discussion are the lefties. I seem to recall Owen Jones doing the very same.

I'm busy working so I cheated and used AI for a Corbyn summary

• The 2012 Maseeh Mural Defense: Corbyn faced criticism for questioning the planned removal of a 2012 East London mural depicting stereotypical caricatures of Jewish bankers and capitalists, which critics and communal organizations denounced as overtly antisemitic. src="https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/M94dQsFG-W4?start=1" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen> 1, 2]
• 2014 Wreath-Laying Controversy: He was criticized for attending a commemoration in Tunisia where he was pictured holding a wreath near graves associated with members of Black September, the Palestinian militant group behind the 1972 Munich Olympics massacre. 1, 2]
• Foreword to Hobhouse's Book (2011): Corbyn wrote a supportive foreword for a 1912 re-issued economic book (Imperialism) by J.A. Hobson, which advanced theories regarding Jewish financial control over press and banking. 1, 2]
• Associations with Holocaust Deniers and Extremists: Reports flagged his past association with Paul Eisen, a founder of Holocaust-denying group Deir Yassin Remembered, as well as his past description of Hamas and Hezbollah members as "friends" in a diplomatic context. 1, 2]
• Comments on "Zionists Lacking English Irony" (2013): Speaking at a meeting, Corbyn asserted that some pro-Israel activists who had lived in Britain for a long time "don't understand English irony," which critics argued used national identity to single out and demean Jewish/Zionist individuals. 1]
• Handling of Internal Party Antisemitism: The Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) found the Labour Party under his leadership responsible for unlawful acts of harassment and discrimination, citing political interference from the leader's office in handling internal antisemitism complaints. 1, 2,
• Minimizing the Crisis (2020 Suspension): Following the release of the EHRC report, Corbyn claimed the scale of antisemitism within Labour had been "dramatically overstated for political reasons," leading to his suspension from the parliamentary party whip by successor Keir Starmer. src="https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/p78-YSudYyE" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen> 1, ]

Why was he suspended in 2020 and then banned by Starmer from
standing for Labour in 2024?

So firstly, this is pointless whataboutism. Secondly, I don’t care. I am politically untethered, there isn’t a party I would vote for, so it’s not having whatever effect you hoped it would. Owen Jones is an idiot.

You're talking about whataboutery on a thread that's not supporting Labour. Did you read the thread introduction, with the unbelievably gorgeous far right black labrador leading the way?

I won’t read AI, thanks, it’s famously shit and makes stuff up and is extremely lazy, so you can keep that.

I actually used my own brain and did my own research and uncovered the things I believe. I don’t like acronym per se, as I said, I have no political affinity and haven’t since Caroline Lucas quit the Greens, but my own research is Which is why I believe what I am saying. I don’t believe that Corbyn was anti-Semitic, I think it was a dirty campaign. As I have said, he hasn’t done enough to deal with anti-dentist but I still think it’s sick. Whereas, the man we chose, Johnson, had a history of being racist and sexist in his own newspaper column and via his own speeches.

Antisemitic to the core.

Actually, I am not. I responded to someone’s question in here with my thoughts. That isn’t whataboutism, it’s responding to a regular poster on here, totally different things.

Antisemitism is racism. If you're telling everyone else they are racist while defending Corbyn, you're a grade A hypocrite.

It's all completely accurate and I just it for speed as it can collate things a lot faster than I. Helpfully, it provided reputable sources for everything, too.
Feel free to refute any points you believe are lies.

Antisemitism is horrific and I abhor it. Just because I don’t believe that won’t person is anti-Semitic doesn’t mean anything, it means I did hours of my own research and came to my own conclusion. Perhaps you should do the same.

We had an ex pupil and mates trash and torch his own old primary school.

I don’t engage with AI, however I strongly believe that if you typed into chat whatever or even Google ‘show me how Corbyn is NOT anti-Semitic’ it would give you a similar list.

If you wish to do your own research, as I have done, and come back I will be open to discuss any points. But AI is dangerous, unreliable and for thick people, so no, I will not engage with that. Come back to me ina. Day or two when you have conducted your own research and I will be happy to chat.

Spread here and elsewhere. It all hangs on Tik Tok these days.

You know as well as I do, surely, given all your research, that all of the below are verifiable actions by Corbyn that actually happened.

Corbyn faced criticism for questioning the planned removal of a 2012 East London mural depicting stereotypical caricatures of Jewish bankers and capitalists.
He was criticized for attending a commemoration in Tunisia where he was pictured holding a wreath near graves associated with members of Black September, the Palestinian militant group behind the 1972 Munich Olympics massacre.
Corbyn wrote a supportive foreword for a 1912 re-issued economic book (Imperialism) by J.A. Hobson, which advanced theories regarding Jewish financial control over press and banking.
Reports flagged his past association with Paul Eisen, a founder of Holocaust-denying group Deir Yassin Remembered, as well as his past description of Hamas and Hezbollah members as "friends" in a diplomatic context.
Speaking at a meeting, Corbyn asserted that some pro-Israel activists who had lived in Britain for a long time "don't understand English irony".
The EHRC found the Labour Party under his leadership responsible for unlawful acts of harassment and discrimination, citing political interference from the leader's office in handling internal antisemitism complaints

You don't abhor antisemitism if you deny that Corbyn's many noted actions are antisemitic. You deny and minimise it.
At best, giving him the massive benefit of the doubt, the man is a misguided fool.

Except I don’t know that because I haven’t read it. All you have done is gone ‘Duh, AI says’ and now you are repeating what AI has said back to me. I am not engaging. Put ‘show me all the ways Corbyn ISNT anti-Semitic into AI and it will do your work for you. Because that is what AI is. It’s for thicky idiots who can’t think for themselves.

Because the lies we’re talking about are rubbish about child abuse, prostitutes, affairs, parentage, private corruption and so on.

If people want to call Badenoch a racist - laughable as that is - and some on MN are very keen on doing so, then it’s wrong and stupid but it’s a political or social judgment.

Of course some on the right spread lies about the private lives of Labour politicians. As well as the lies about Starmer there was a nasty one about Phillipson a while ago. But it’s much more a fringe activity than on the left. The right’s lies of that sort don’t get traction, thankfully. But the number of people who still go on about Baroness Owen and Johnson without a shred of evidence for it is astonishing.

Don’t out words into my mouth to win your argument. And you defended Johnson by default, who has published racism repeatedly, and sexism, so pot, kettle, black, spring to mind.

I’m not engaging with people who cannot form their own arguments though and rely on AI and whataboutery. It’s like talking to pigeons. Enjoy your angry little day!

I specifically mentioned the lies about Starmer. That’s where this discussion started. Read the thread.

I gave you a list of verifiable incidents that actually happened, though. Whether I say it, AI says it or I hire a town crier to say it, they all did actually happen.
Now, if you want to tell me why you think each of these incidents isn't antisemitic, feel free, but until then you're just deflecting.