Labour isn't Working - Thread 41

[Nuthatch26]

A chat thread for those who don't like this Labour government. 💙

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

Previous thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5575770-labour-isnt-working-thread-40?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

The sensible right doesn’t go infor this? Where have you been the last 15 years?! The lies against Corbyn? The smear campaign led by Goldsmith? Have you listened to Farage speak, like, ever? Oh, and of course, the lies against Starmer, as discussed.
You are either incredibly naive or trying to push a narrative here. Do your research, theIs has occurs on both sides, not just the left. You clearly have an agenda. Not interested in it.

I think you’re misreading what I’ve said. There are people on the right, particularly on the further right, like Reform and Restore who go in for this sort of stuff. But it’s not a feature of the right in the way it is for the left.

Equivalences between the left and right on this just don’t work.

Burnham preparing for May election, claims Badenoch

Tory leader says Prime Minister’s speech to Labour conference pointed to snap poll.

This is a thread specifically to critique Labour, we really don't need to both-sides it here.

Agree

Classic crazy right-wing behaviour, won’t be open to discussion even when it is simply to balance ignorance.

Well enjoy your chat then, I won’t be reading further so no need to stress your fingers with a response.

A pp has reminded of the Draper and McBride stuff. But another shining example is Tom Watson. He helped ruin a lot of lives by supporting the liar Carl Beech. Watson did recant, late in the day

I don’t think Watson ever apologised to Harvey Proctor who, as a result of the complete lies told by Beech and spread by Watson, lost his job and his home.
Watson should’ve been in jail along with Beech.
The Beech affair was a seriously shocking episode and the police behaved appallingly though I don’t suppose any of the officers were ever punished.

Okay bye.

I’m very happy to admit all the flaws of right-wing parties and politicians. I would hope that regulars on here know that I am not keen, to say the least, on right-wing extremists. Reform are too extreme for me, let alone Restore or any of the fringe loons who put on balaclavas.

But on the issue of circulating horrible lies about opponents I really don’t see it as a balance politically. It’s a left-wing playbook.

I appreciate you’ve ducked out. But looking back at your comment, if you were to venture in again I’d be interested in the “lies told about Corbyn”. I don’t remember any lies about his personal life at all. There was plenty of criticism of his politics and where it would lead, but nothing about his private life.

All the stuff about his marriage and his disagreement with his wife about schooling, his relationship with Diane Abbott and his trip around the DDR on a motorbike was all in the public domain.

Huh. Didn't take long for the 'I'm so reasonable' facade to drop.

Saying 'both sides are just as bad' doesn't actually make you reasonable.

Not when one side (yours) is far more culpable.

Macron won't be around much longer there will be elections in France next year I think. Elections also in Spain.
There could be a much more right wing balance to those countries next year. Will they be bothered with a Left Wing UK begging and pleading at their door.
EU might change if Rightist parties win more power. Le Pen & AFD. Hungary has changed but they will never turn Left. What is happening in Nederlands and Spain?
Who would we be negotiating with?

And there’s the terms of re-entry. Even if the EU was unanimously happy about us rejoining (even one country can veto an application) which I doubt would happen, no political party here would push for joining if the polls showed majority opposition to adopting the Euro and having macro-policy decided by the ECB, for example.

If we ditch the ECHR at any point - for which there’s a respectable argument - that’s a straight disqualification from joining the EU in itself.

I think this is just Burnham making passes at the LibDems. They’re probably stupid enough to buy it.

Remaining (I voted that way) was one thing. Re-joining is quite another.

I'm just aghast at the scenes coming out of France. They spend so much money on managing riots and damage !
They had those awful fires and terror attacks and the pension riots and now this ? It must be costing them an absolute fortune no wonder he's desperate to get us back !

I can't imagine schools being burned here ?
What's really sparked this off.

@SersioulycanitgetWORSE I don’t claim to know in detail
It’s part of a bigger thing

The names Jean-Luc Mélenchon and Bally Bagayoko seem to be coming up a lot. They are socialists. Presenting that as a neutral fact.

Marseiile and Strasbourg shut down public transport after some poor bus driver got attacked and there’s been a lot of issues on public transport generally apart from that I think.

I really really hope it doesn’t spread here.

Those hideous scenes certainly won't be hindering Le Pen's poll performance.

https://x.com/EYakoby/status/2105767273923231867

I know the rioting and destruction is serious, but I can’t help rolling my eyes at the supposed reasons that violent teenagers are giving. Apparently they’re really angry about the size of classes, state of classrooms and too few teachers. Yeah, sure, they’re setting fire to schools because they’re so keen to get a good education.

Apparently acid has been thrown at some teachers and petrol sprayed on others. Exactly what a committed pupil in love with learning would do. 🙄

I think it’s just the usual French love of a good riot. The university students are joining in, as per usual.

And the French left is as ever egging on the rioters. These riots coincide with strikes against cuts in public spending.

@DenizenOfAisleOfShame ”I think it’s just the usual French love of a good riot”

I don’t.

“These riots coincide with strikes against cuts in public spending.”

well, it’s not a coincidence, but I appreciate you may not have meant the word coincide in that way.

No, I didn’t mean a coincidence. ‘These riots are being staged at the same time as strikes against cuts in public spending’ would have been more accurate.

If you don’t think it’s mindless rioting by school pupils, what do you think is the cause? I’m very sure it’s not big classes and a lack of textbooks.

@DenizenOfAisleOfShame do you know what? After all the crazy we’ve had on these threads? I don’t really feel comfortable explaining myself.

If you look at my post, and listen to what’s not being said, I do think it’s in there.

I think I quoted Whitechapel on another thread “ there are dark forces at play, gentlemen”. In the world generally, not on MN 😂

@SapphireCasino with you on that one.

Those French scenes. They also have higher debt to GDP than here and who knows if they’ll vote for more of that.

The EU isn’t making their reality much different.

Presumably the massive smear campaign that he is anti-Semitic. Despite his history of supporting Jewish issues, notably when he campaigned to keep a Jewish cemetery open when a Tory council tried to close in the..late 80s, I think? They buried his history and claimed he was anti-Semitic and people believed it. Did he do enough to deal with anti-semitism within the Labour Party? No, he didn’t and that was a huge mistake for him, Starmer did a much better job of that, but to accuse a man who has spent his life fighting for others including the Jewish community of such hatred was shocking. It still follows him now and he is very hurt by it, as he has said. It was an utterly disgusting tactic.

This is not the same as just making stuff up, like implications of child sex abuse rings and other lurid innuendo that can follow innocent people in the public eye.

It’s different opinions on the uncontested facts and which ones are important and where the line is drawn on antisemitism.

The antisemitism allegations are not as you describe at all. Remember the wreath laying? Remember the “pleasure and honour” and “friends” statements about hosting Hezbollah? The antisemitic mural comment?

In any case, allegations of antisemitism have nothing to do with Corbyn’s private life.