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Adding trellis to stop neighbour intrusion

342 replies

RosesAreRed85 · Yesterday 10:40

I live in a 4 in a block. I'm top floor and my garden (private) is the one shown on the left of the photo, surrounded by the fence. Neighbour is beneath and the window shown is her bedroom window. Both fences are mine, previous owner paid for them and for them to be erected.

I get on well enough with downstairs neighbour however the issue is that every time I go out to the garden, she comes out and chats, for a good half hour. She's elderly and I get that she just wants to chat, I have no problem with a short chat now and then, but last time I was out there, I had a whole day free when DC was at their dads and so wanted to get cracking on the garden, she came out 5 separate times, 3 times to chat for ages and will sometimes stand watching me from her bedroom window, which is a little awkward.

I'm not sure if it would be unreaonable of me to heighten the fence a little to give me privacy? I don't want to completely block her light, just her view into my garden! I was thinking of popping a trellis on top, so that light still gets through. Maybe pop some climbing flowers on it. The taller fence that can be seen is 6ft tall, i was thinking of matching the trellis height to this. Local planning permission dictates 6ft 6 inches is the limit that you can have fences, so I don't think I would be breaking any local laws. I'm sure she will complain as she's quite fixed on how she thinks things should be, so I'm not sure if it's unreasonable of me to do this?

Adding trellis to stop neighbour intrusion
OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
GoldTie · Yesterday 17:50

I’d do the trellis, and tell her you thought it would be nice ‘if we both had a bit more privacy as the fence is so low’. The photo makes it look like the fence is right against the window, but it’s not, it as at least a gate’s width away. My neighbour and I have kitchen windows that face each other, with side returns that are a gate’s width. We have a fence about 5ft high and trellis like OP has shown. We can see through it but it give more of a polite illusion that we can’t see each other.

I’d do that, then work on making little arbors etc, hanging sheets, cutting her off a bit more promptly if she is talking too long (as the trellis won’t deter her much, but will hopefully give her a hint).

smallglassbottle · Yesterday 17:58

If you speak to her about the problem she'll either take it on board and back off, take a massive huff and act like you've poisoned her, be totally mystified and carry on as before. It depends upon how socially intelligent she is. If she was emotionally intelligent in the first place, she wouldn't be overwhelming you now.

TunnocksOrDeath · Yesterday 17:58

Can you erect a hedge/trellis in your garden, parallel to the existing fence but a small distance away from it and use the gap for something (shed at one end, herb pots, raised bed for lavender, water butt…) then you won’t block her light and you can have privacy and quiet behind that.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

EarthSight · Yesterday 18:02

Travelodge · Yesterday 15:23

But sweet peas are an annual and would only work for a few months each year.

Yes that's true. Something good to try though before she does anything more permanent.

WWomble · Yesterday 18:02

I think anything in front of her window would be extremely unreasonable.

You need to come up with some phrases to kindly give her the brush off after a minute or 2’s conversation - Sorry Doris I need to focus on the game or Jim’s beat me again, need to get on with the gardening before I get the weeds confused with the plants. Maybe if you’re out there doing jobs you need to wear visible headphones to give her extra cues as to when the conversation is over (even if you don’t listen to anything!)

BlackRowan · Yesterday 18:09

RosesAreRed85 · Yesterday 11:01

I haven't. I would feel awfully rude. How would I even word that? 'Sorry, I don't want to talk to you'?

You think it’s better to just put the trellis up without saying anything? 🤦‍♀️

Keymoment · Yesterday 18:09

I would strongly suspect that there will be some sort of covenant to stop you blocking her windows. It doesn’t matter if it’s your garden.

Ifyounevergiveup · Yesterday 18:10

What fascinates me now I’m 60 (how??) is what people mean by elderly.

if she’s in her 90’s…big headphones, big smile and a big wave then get on with your gardening.

if she’s in her 60’s or 70’s she’s being an asshole and you can tell her pretty bluntly to jog on.

She might well be lonely. But unless she’s in her dotage she’ll be well aware of societal cues and is choosing to ignore them.

this old lady says fight your corner!

GreenCandleWax · Yesterday 18:17

RosesAreRed85 · Yesterday 11:01

I haven't. I would feel awfully rude. How would I even word that? 'Sorry, I don't want to talk to you'?

I think this is actually the best option. As long as she does not have dementia or is confused in any way, it would be better all round to talk openly to her. You can do it kindly. Tell her you really value being able to go out into your garden and have some time to yourself. Say you are happy to talk to her other times - maybe we could have tea and a chat once a week, what about Tuesdays? but I would be really glad if you would not come in or talk to me whie I am on my own in the garden or watch me from the window. i am not lonely, I just need to be on my own out there,
Would clear the air, and you will both know where you are.
If she agrees and keeps to it, fine. if she agrees but does not keep to it, the next conversation will have to be "Jane, we agreed you wouldn't bother me while i am in the garden. I need my privacy, so if this goes on, I will have to put up some sort of barrier, which would be a shame as you won't be able to see the garden at all".🌺

MyDeftDuck · Yesterday 18:22

latetothefisting · Yesterday 16:44

She refers to the previous owner having installed the fences, which suggests OP is the current owner. It would be unlikely she would be able to put up fences etc without landlord permission if she didn't own it.

🙄

ThorsRaven · Yesterday 18:22

I'd create a 60cm deep border in front of the fence. Into that border I'd add regularly spaced obelisks or intermittent or raised trellis that are located about 30cm away from the fence - the trellis or obelisk would be in the centre of the border and underplanted so it'd become a feature.

Then onto the trellis or obelisks I'd train plants like Rosa Blush Noisette because it's fantastic (gorgeous scent that fills the area, only grows to 2.5 metres tall, vigorous, repeat flowering, exceptionally pretty) or the unscented but magnificent perennial sweet peas (easy to grow, cheap, fast growing, LOVED by bees) or honeysuckle. All of these plants would have plenty of growth to give privacy.

That way, you'd get privacy and the trellis wouldn't be right up against the fence making it seem like you're putting up a wall.

You can build the trellises or obelisks yourself easily - the obelisks can be either pyramid ones or column ones. Just make sure they're the right size for the plants - for a perennial sweet pea it needs to be about 7ft tall.

Examples:

Intermittent trellis with roses and nepeta

Something similar to this but shorter and without the pergola top

Something like this but about 30cm away from the wall

Fancy shaped trellis

Obelisks like this but closer together

View along herbaceous border punctuated with wooden obelisks clothed with Lonicera periclymenum - honeysuckle

Rosa 'The Generous Gardener' trained on obelisk. RHS Hyde Hall

Alternatively, you could plant espalier fruit (apples, pears, plums) in the border and train them at head height - example. They'd give you privacy in summer but not block neighbours light in winter - but you'd need to make sure you get the right rootstock to restrain vigour, and you'd have to keep on top of summer and winter pruning.

https://www.thespruce.com/thmb/1oRp4XVxkWNTy-cVERVv7OU00_8=/1500x0/filters:no_upscale():max_bytes(150000):strip_icc()/companion-plants-for-roses-4142013-hero-c074e6cb26614efb8ff1d2b02f4641f2.jpg

godmum56 · Yesterday 18:26

Tink3rbell30 · Yesterday 17:29

No you can't block her view/light. How would you even explain to her when she sees it and asks about it anyway?

"cuz I'm awfy fashed wi yer blether" ought to do it

RosesAreRed85 · Yesterday 18:33

ThorsRaven · Yesterday 18:22

I'd create a 60cm deep border in front of the fence. Into that border I'd add regularly spaced obelisks or intermittent or raised trellis that are located about 30cm away from the fence - the trellis or obelisk would be in the centre of the border and underplanted so it'd become a feature.

Then onto the trellis or obelisks I'd train plants like Rosa Blush Noisette because it's fantastic (gorgeous scent that fills the area, only grows to 2.5 metres tall, vigorous, repeat flowering, exceptionally pretty) or the unscented but magnificent perennial sweet peas (easy to grow, cheap, fast growing, LOVED by bees) or honeysuckle. All of these plants would have plenty of growth to give privacy.

That way, you'd get privacy and the trellis wouldn't be right up against the fence making it seem like you're putting up a wall.

You can build the trellises or obelisks yourself easily - the obelisks can be either pyramid ones or column ones. Just make sure they're the right size for the plants - for a perennial sweet pea it needs to be about 7ft tall.

Examples:

Intermittent trellis with roses and nepeta

Something similar to this but shorter and without the pergola top

Something like this but about 30cm away from the wall

Fancy shaped trellis

Obelisks like this but closer together

View along herbaceous border punctuated with wooden obelisks clothed with Lonicera periclymenum - honeysuckle

Rosa 'The Generous Gardener' trained on obelisk. RHS Hyde Hall

Alternatively, you could plant espalier fruit (apples, pears, plums) in the border and train them at head height - example. They'd give you privacy in summer but not block neighbours light in winter - but you'd need to make sure you get the right rootstock to restrain vigour, and you'd have to keep on top of summer and winter pruning.

Thank you! Fabulous ideas! Do you know what would grow the quickest? As I'd want privacy sooner rather than later! And in your opinion, would you be upset if your light was blocked by these? Folk are saying that they wouldn't add trellises to the top of the fence as they would block light (I'm not sure how they would block light but that's another matter) however plants/flowering bushes would also block her view and block more light than a trellis.

OP posts:
RockinCara · Yesterday 18:34

RosesAreRed85 · Yesterday 17:08

In theory, that's all well and good. In reality, how would you feel if someone asked you not to talk to them when they're in the garden? Personally, I'd feel a bit hurt and embarrassed, as though I was being a pest. I wouldn't act like that in the first place though.

Well that’s good, isn’t it? If she thinks you’re rude or not very nice she’ll stop trying to chat to you..!

Ive got a magnolia in a pot. It’s got quite tall quite quickly. A few plants like this might work? Or how about a moveable box with a trelis on it that you could move around a bit if it really does block her light? I feel a continuous line of trelis would be a tad rude.

Adding trellis to stop neighbour intrusion
Adding trellis to stop neighbour intrusion
Theroadt · Yesterday 18:43

I find selective deafness helps. You really do have to ignore her, but to be kind maybe invite her to have tea with you in your garden once or twice so she knows it isn’t personal. I can’t see you can put a trellis up tbh given it’s so close

Gleba · Yesterday 18:53

ThorsRaven · Yesterday 18:22

I'd create a 60cm deep border in front of the fence. Into that border I'd add regularly spaced obelisks or intermittent or raised trellis that are located about 30cm away from the fence - the trellis or obelisk would be in the centre of the border and underplanted so it'd become a feature.

Then onto the trellis or obelisks I'd train plants like Rosa Blush Noisette because it's fantastic (gorgeous scent that fills the area, only grows to 2.5 metres tall, vigorous, repeat flowering, exceptionally pretty) or the unscented but magnificent perennial sweet peas (easy to grow, cheap, fast growing, LOVED by bees) or honeysuckle. All of these plants would have plenty of growth to give privacy.

That way, you'd get privacy and the trellis wouldn't be right up against the fence making it seem like you're putting up a wall.

You can build the trellises or obelisks yourself easily - the obelisks can be either pyramid ones or column ones. Just make sure they're the right size for the plants - for a perennial sweet pea it needs to be about 7ft tall.

Examples:

Intermittent trellis with roses and nepeta

Something similar to this but shorter and without the pergola top

Something like this but about 30cm away from the wall

Fancy shaped trellis

Obelisks like this but closer together

View along herbaceous border punctuated with wooden obelisks clothed with Lonicera periclymenum - honeysuckle

Rosa 'The Generous Gardener' trained on obelisk. RHS Hyde Hall

Alternatively, you could plant espalier fruit (apples, pears, plums) in the border and train them at head height - example. They'd give you privacy in summer but not block neighbours light in winter - but you'd need to make sure you get the right rootstock to restrain vigour, and you'd have to keep on top of summer and winter pruning.

All lovely ideas. Listen to this, OP.

JustLookingThanks · Yesterday 19:24

This is an awful drawing, sorry, I think a combination of heights trellis would look great. A very slightly higher one in front of her window, up to half way of her window maybe with sweet peas as suggested before would be ideal and smelly lovely for her in the evening but still allow lots of light in. Black eye Susan are also good climbers which flower for months although annuals, or a honey suckle is perennial. You could also add a wigwam to grow beans up or a line of beans nearer her door.
A seat with trellis up the back, with the back parallel to the path, that you could grow something over would provide privacy without taking away space, I assume you have some garden furniture already as you mentioned playing games and this could provide some seating.

Adding trellis to stop neighbour intrusion
ThorsRaven · Yesterday 19:25

RosesAreRed85 · Yesterday 18:33

Thank you! Fabulous ideas! Do you know what would grow the quickest? As I'd want privacy sooner rather than later! And in your opinion, would you be upset if your light was blocked by these? Folk are saying that they wouldn't add trellises to the top of the fence as they would block light (I'm not sure how they would block light but that's another matter) however plants/flowering bushes would also block her view and block more light than a trellis.

The perennial sweet peas will be the fastest if you buy established plants - depending on their size / age. If you grow them from seed (which is cheaper and easy access - you should be able to get seed at hardware shops like B&Q or The Range or garden centres) they'll take a year or so to get going. Established plants should give you a reasonable screen in their first year after planting but you'll be getting a decent screen by 2028.

The roses - if you planted them this winter, they should be providing good screening by summer 2028.

The honeysuckle is vigorous and if you planted it this winter or coming spring, you should get reasonable coverage by the summer and abundant coverage by summer 2028. The honeysuckle would be good because (a) you can chop it back hard if it gets out of control (b) it smells wonderful (c) it's usually affordable (d) wildlife like it.

A quick solution could be:

You could mix and match the trellises and obelisks to create depth and interest for both you and neighbour.

For example, you could have 3 upright trellises, about 20cm away from the fence, and spaced evenly along the fence line. Up these you could grow roses and honeysuckle as they smell lovey and would be pleasant for your neighbour. These should be giving good screening by summer 2028.

Then in the gaps between the trellises, in the centre of the bed, you could place obelisks, with both annual and perennial sweet peas growing up them.

This would fill in the spaces between the trellises without making a solid wall of high fencing right up against the boundary. Plus, the annual sweet peas are very fast growing and if planted early, watered and fed, they'll give you great screening summer 2027. The annuals will give the perennial sweet peas time to get established while also giving you privacy sooner rather than later,

You could do the same on the trellises - grow annual climbers from seed (such as ipomoea or thunbergia) up the trellises while the honeysuckle or roses get established. Again you'll get fast short term cover with an established screen forming in the subsequent years.

This option should give you pretty much decent coverage by next summer if you (a) build and plant it this autumn / winter, (b) buy the perennial sweet peas as established plants (c) sow the annuals indoors early in the season.

On the subject of light - yes plants will block light and will block more light than bare trellis. However plants are more interesting and pleasant than bare trellis. You can be considerate and thoughtful about how you place both the plants or the trellis to get the privacy you want without building Alcatraz for your overly friendly neighbour. !

This is why I've suggested intermittent trellises or obelisks placed away from the fence line. By spacing them with thought, you should be able to create privacy without completely blocking the light. By placing them away from the fence, you're not creating a solid screen which could feel overwhelming for your neighbour.

And all the plants I've suggested will either die back or shed their leaves in winter - so they'll give screening in summer when you're out in the garden, but will allow winter light into the neighbours windows. And in the summer, your neighbour can sit in the sun in her garden if that's what she wants.
Would I prefer plants or trellis? I'd rather look at plants than my neighbours in their garden so I might not be the best person to ask!

But remember - if she can see you in your garden, then when you're in your garden, you can also see her in her bedroom. So your considerate screening will ensure she has privacy in her bedroom too - after all, does Doris want you and your guests peering into her bedroom while you're having a BBQ?

Genevieva · Yesterday 19:40

What’s reasonable or unreasonable is irrelevant. What matters is what your local council says. There are restrictions above 2m if one party objects. I think trellises are treated differently from hedges and fences, but you will need to check. A trellis with something lovely growing on it would be an improvement for both of you. What direction does it face, from a sunlight perspective?

Kalanthe · Yesterday 19:53

You are not being unreasonable at all.

I'd smile to her and ignore her, carry on with the sanding etc.

You could section off part of your garden for privacy? Not by the fence where her window is to not block light, but other part of the garden so that you can sit there and she won't see you

ThorsRaven · Yesterday 19:57

Here's a very bad drawing of what I meant.

Dig out a border in front of the fence - minimum 60cm (up to 90cm if you can).

The red rectangles are trellises about 20cm away from the fence - make them 180cm tall and about 60 cm wide. Grow honeysuckle or the Rosa Blush Noisette up these - get bare root roses from the link I provided as they're cheaper than pot versions but you need to buy them in the winter. To give instant coverage for summer next year, grow some annual ipomoea up the trellises (sow indoors early to give them a head start).

The yellow triangles are obelisks - these are about 2m tall and placed 30cm - 40cm away from the fence. Up these grow perennial sweet peas in the long term, plus annual sweet peas for the first summer of two to give privacy.

In the border, around the base of the trellises and obelisks, plant things like nepeta, Agastache, lavender, geums, geraniums, verbascum, foxgloves, gaura, verbena bonariensis, etc. Mr Fothergills has a list of seeds that are first year flowering perennials (perennial plant seed that if you sow them early inside, they should flower the first year). You could grow annuals from seed too so you're guaranteed flowers in 2027. Sunflower are nice (and tall).

Adding trellis to stop neighbour intrusion
PrettyLittleRose · Yesterday 19:59

Ifyounevergiveup · Yesterday 18:10

What fascinates me now I’m 60 (how??) is what people mean by elderly.

if she’s in her 90’s…big headphones, big smile and a big wave then get on with your gardening.

if she’s in her 60’s or 70’s she’s being an asshole and you can tell her pretty bluntly to jog on.

She might well be lonely. But unless she’s in her dotage she’ll be well aware of societal cues and is choosing to ignore them.

this old lady says fight your corner!

Why is OK to be an asshole to someone in their 60s or 70s? Confused

RosesAreRed85 · Yesterday 20:02

ThorsRaven · Yesterday 19:25

The perennial sweet peas will be the fastest if you buy established plants - depending on their size / age. If you grow them from seed (which is cheaper and easy access - you should be able to get seed at hardware shops like B&Q or The Range or garden centres) they'll take a year or so to get going. Established plants should give you a reasonable screen in their first year after planting but you'll be getting a decent screen by 2028.

The roses - if you planted them this winter, they should be providing good screening by summer 2028.

The honeysuckle is vigorous and if you planted it this winter or coming spring, you should get reasonable coverage by the summer and abundant coverage by summer 2028. The honeysuckle would be good because (a) you can chop it back hard if it gets out of control (b) it smells wonderful (c) it's usually affordable (d) wildlife like it.

A quick solution could be:

You could mix and match the trellises and obelisks to create depth and interest for both you and neighbour.

For example, you could have 3 upright trellises, about 20cm away from the fence, and spaced evenly along the fence line. Up these you could grow roses and honeysuckle as they smell lovey and would be pleasant for your neighbour. These should be giving good screening by summer 2028.

Then in the gaps between the trellises, in the centre of the bed, you could place obelisks, with both annual and perennial sweet peas growing up them.

This would fill in the spaces between the trellises without making a solid wall of high fencing right up against the boundary. Plus, the annual sweet peas are very fast growing and if planted early, watered and fed, they'll give you great screening summer 2027. The annuals will give the perennial sweet peas time to get established while also giving you privacy sooner rather than later,

You could do the same on the trellises - grow annual climbers from seed (such as ipomoea or thunbergia) up the trellises while the honeysuckle or roses get established. Again you'll get fast short term cover with an established screen forming in the subsequent years.

This option should give you pretty much decent coverage by next summer if you (a) build and plant it this autumn / winter, (b) buy the perennial sweet peas as established plants (c) sow the annuals indoors early in the season.

On the subject of light - yes plants will block light and will block more light than bare trellis. However plants are more interesting and pleasant than bare trellis. You can be considerate and thoughtful about how you place both the plants or the trellis to get the privacy you want without building Alcatraz for your overly friendly neighbour. !

This is why I've suggested intermittent trellises or obelisks placed away from the fence line. By spacing them with thought, you should be able to create privacy without completely blocking the light. By placing them away from the fence, you're not creating a solid screen which could feel overwhelming for your neighbour.

And all the plants I've suggested will either die back or shed their leaves in winter - so they'll give screening in summer when you're out in the garden, but will allow winter light into the neighbours windows. And in the summer, your neighbour can sit in the sun in her garden if that's what she wants.
Would I prefer plants or trellis? I'd rather look at plants than my neighbours in their garden so I might not be the best person to ask!

But remember - if she can see you in your garden, then when you're in your garden, you can also see her in her bedroom. So your considerate screening will ensure she has privacy in her bedroom too - after all, does Doris want you and your guests peering into her bedroom while you're having a BBQ?

These are wonderful ideas! I've just had a look and jasmine looks gorgeous and apparantly gives off a lovely scent. I wonder if jasmine would grow up the trellises and then along wires connecting the trellises? You've given me some fabulous ideas which I'm going to research further, thank you!

OP posts:
RosesAreRed85 · Yesterday 20:04

ThorsRaven · Yesterday 19:57

Here's a very bad drawing of what I meant.

Dig out a border in front of the fence - minimum 60cm (up to 90cm if you can).

The red rectangles are trellises about 20cm away from the fence - make them 180cm tall and about 60 cm wide. Grow honeysuckle or the Rosa Blush Noisette up these - get bare root roses from the link I provided as they're cheaper than pot versions but you need to buy them in the winter. To give instant coverage for summer next year, grow some annual ipomoea up the trellises (sow indoors early to give them a head start).

The yellow triangles are obelisks - these are about 2m tall and placed 30cm - 40cm away from the fence. Up these grow perennial sweet peas in the long term, plus annual sweet peas for the first summer of two to give privacy.

In the border, around the base of the trellises and obelisks, plant things like nepeta, Agastache, lavender, geums, geraniums, verbascum, foxgloves, gaura, verbena bonariensis, etc. Mr Fothergills has a list of seeds that are first year flowering perennials (perennial plant seed that if you sow them early inside, they should flower the first year). You could grow annuals from seed too so you're guaranteed flowers in 2027. Sunflower are nice (and tall).

Thank you! Q - how would I make the trellises stand up if I can't attach them to the fence? Would i dig a kind of slot in the grass and place it in?

OP posts:
fiveyo · Yesterday 20:10

ChateauMargaux · Yesterday 12:23

It does look like the garden was originally intended to be communal but somewhere along the way, it was carved up between the flats. The illusion that you have purchased a private garden, is simply that.. an illusion.

Don’t be rediculous. She has either bought sole rights to the use of a garden or she hasn’t. That obviously doesn’t address the overlooking issue but that is a different matter.